Sunday, January 8, 2012
On Homosexuality as a Normal Variant of Human Sexuality
This is what the American Psychiatric and American Psychological Associations have decided in railing against the idea of Conversion Therapy where therapists try to convert homosexuals back to normal. The problem is that neither knows what normal is. Suppose we show that one year after starting therapy homosexuals have a “normal” level of cortisol—stress hormone. Or that their blood pressure normalizes. Then we begin to have an idea of what normal is and if there has been a deviation. If after we do all kinds of research biochemically and find a normalization of key factors such as natural killer cells and other cells we begin to see what is a deviation or not. So no, homosexuality is not a normal part of sexuality. Not because I say so out of some prejudice, but because science leads me there. And if we give into pressure and agree that it is not a deviation, as the American Psychological Association voted on some years ago, we do harm to those homosexuals who cannot understand the way they are. Imagine voting on sexuality as if it were a political issue to be for or against. Next we will vote on psychosis to see if it is a real deviation. If we ignore deep-lying causes we will never find out. If we ignore brain and biochemical research we will also never find out. We need to delve deep into the system to discover ultimate causes. If we never truly define normalcy, how can we decide what is not normal?
So if homosexuality is normal it cannot ever be treated and changed? I have found that not to be true. A few of my homosexual patients do change after many many months of therapy and very deep probing into the brain and the unconscious. And we never assume anything about it, only that after perhaps of in-depth feeling there is an automatic change in some patients. We never decide a priori that it is a malady that must be treated, but we also do not decide without evidence that it is normal, either. There is so little science in psychotherapy today; and the science that does exist, especially in brain science, never seems to make it into our practice. Even for those who do the brain research they cannot make the atavistic leap into the realm of psychotherapy; into deeply hidden secrets of the unconscious.
Why grace nonsense such as conversion with the sobriquet “therapy?” This is only done by those beknighted souls who think that homosexuality is evil and must be driven out of the human system. Prejudice always seems to supersede facts and science. It is easier, simplistic and doesn’t take much thought. If patients could be helped back into their remote history we would see the pain involved into homosexuality, and then we could add to it copious research extant that indicates that it may well begin with trauma in the womb and at birth. If we don’t look there how can we ever find out. Ah I know: replace it all with prejudice, or in the case of the scientific societies guess and bit and then take a liberal position that it is not “bad” after all but normal. We have just overlooked our decades of therapeutic experience and several hundred research studies. Why? Because we want to be loved and not be prejudiced, which is what it does make us. We don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings. Is that science espoused by august scientific societies? Or is the search for love and praise for being so “democratic.” Sometimes science is fascist; it doesn’t care about our feelings and where their findings lead. It cares about truth. So it should say that sometimes psychotherapy for homosexuality might be good; and that it might be a deviation, after all. Keep an open mind, and above all never vote on matters of science. That is truly ridiculous.
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Yep. To 'vote' on science is to effectively take the position of believing what is "nice" before believing what is real. And that kind of thinking (if you can call it that) will end up killing us all off, with or without the psychopaths in power.
ReplyDeleteTo me, homosexuality is like down syndrome - a natural and common deviation, but a deviation nonetheless. It is not normal in the sense that we normally mean it, and we make a mockery of ourselves to suggest that it is.
Art, may I ask what you views are on children being adopted out to homosexual men? I'm curious as to what you think of this. My instincts are seriously against it myself, because I think a child should always have a woman/mother if possible, as a baby especially.
--And for the record readers, I have about as much against gays as I do anyone else with an unfortunate aberration. In other words I have nothing against them.
Art, your findings seem reasonable and science based. As you said, normal is hard to know, since none of us really are. But most revealing to me is the so called science of the American Psychological Association, who voted to decide if it was normal or not. In my extensive studies in science, I find politics is usually the determining factor, also “voting,” but the voters are really the decision makers of the world. They decide and we get dictated to. Interesting how they define science by their practice.
ReplyDeleteArt >> “Imagine voting on sexuality as if it were a political issue to be for or against.”
Imagine voting on any science issue. Science is such a joke. How does one amend the laws of physics? Answer: They do not. No one is allowed to violate the laws of physics, which means those laws can never change . . . well, unless they vote to do so ;-)
Art >> “There is so little science in psychotherapy today.”
Me >> There is very little science in physics, geology, archaeology, anthropology, medicine, or many other fields. They have to be voted on. Gatekeepers make sure that “REAL” knowledge is reserved exclusively for the “high priests” of the world.
Art >> “Prejudice always seems to supersede facts and science. It is easier, simplistic and doesn’t take much thought.”
Could not have said it better myself. It is sad, that whether it is religion, business, or politics, compassion and understanding are never the goals. Humans are just things to use and throw away.
Art >> “Is that science espoused by august scientific societies?
Yes, indeed, it is!
Art >> “Sometimes science is fascist; . . .. It cares about truth.
Sometimes, Art? I would say, rarely. Let’s vote on it, OK? ;-) I know! I’d lose.
Art >> “Keep an open mind, and above all, never vote on matters of science. That is truly ridiculous.
Amen and Halleluiah ;-)
Art: I am homosexual, and have known for some time and admitted that it is not 'normal'. I am however, not uncomfortable with my homosexuality and though I have some clues as to what caused my sexual orientation, I have not gone into them (re-lived them) to the extent of changing my orientation, nor do I expect to, at this stage of my life nearing 80, or even wish to.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I might be something of an exception. I knew from early childhood that I was different but could never figure out what that difference was until my early teens, but by then I was able to accept my orientation and lived with it and lived it. I discovered in my mid teens other homosexuals and went through the normal patterns of dating and jumping into bed with other males. I did develop a sex addition which I was able to use successfully in my life, though I did run afoul of the law on several occasions, but was able to live a reasonably happy life and and have throughout my life had some loving and long term relationships, (2, 4, 5, 7 and currently 30 years). I also learned early in my twenties to be honest, open and direct both about my sexuality and other aspects of my life. Since I was arrested at 21 and because I had a position in the local Health Office, became front page news in the local paper. My parents were aghast but my siblings (all younger) knew about my sexuality and I was told to leave home and from there went to live in London and attempted a career in the theater. In hindsight that was my 'royal route to freedom' and though I later made peace with my parents, and they finally fully accepted it and me.
I would never advocate or encourage anyone to live a homosexual life-style unless I was convinced they were totally homosexual (gay). I am to this day doubtful of those who claim bi-sexuality but the whole subject is way more complicated than is suggested in your blog. I knew after reading "The Primal Scream" that my sexuality was not normal (whatever normal is supposed to mean) and I did NOT enter therapy to 'cure' my sexual orientation. I just knew (felt if you like) that I wanted to live a more feeling-full life and set out to come to Los Angeles and get this therapy. I feel I had a "great shake" of this therapy and know/feel I am and will be more feeling-full for the rest of my life. Wouldn't it have been wonderful if I had never been traumatized? but alas, I was. I also know that my grasp of Primal Theory and where I needed to go with my therapy has helped me enormously and for that I will be ever grateful that I read your book in 1973 and for your discovery and putting together Primal Theory. As many have called me, I am a Janov freak. I am undeterred.
My pet hates are religion for making homosexuality an adoration, and all governments and institutions that condemn it. I do have a little anecdote to stress my point. Some time ago there were some workmen working (a dozen or so) in the trailer park where I live, who picked-up that I was gay and attempted to goad me with it. I turned to them in haste and asked if they were 'straight and married, to which they all vehemently retorted "yes". I then followed through with do you have kids, to which several gleefully replied "yes". I pointed at them and said very loudly "Be very, very careful; maybe your kids will turn out to be gay" to which all replied "Not my kids". I continued with, "That's exactly what my daddy said, 'there will be no fagots in my house'. Guess what! he produced the biggest". The slunk away, but never bothered me again for the ensuing weeks they worked in the trailer park.
Jack
Thank-you for this, Jack... very well expressed and very helpful in the overall discussion here for me.... your dealing with the men at the park was very impressive, very honest and open, telling them your history in an open way, with a jocular twist... well done... Also, I hear what you are saying about your orientation being okay with you.... I suspect from how you express yourself that you would be hetero in time if it seemed to be humanizing and something you perceived as making you more whole, more human... otherwise, things are just as they should be for you.... I admire your openness, your ability to share.
DeleteAndrew: I will write about adoption to homosexuals later on and more fully. It deserves a bigger piece. art
ReplyDeleteWhen I see the simplicity of life... when I "know"... feel that there is no more to get than what the possibilities gives... when I feel the atmosphere ... the atmosphere of what surrounds me… nothing stands in the way or challenged to be. Atmosphere...the feeling in me from what surrounds me… my own choice to do what is best possible.
ReplyDeleteLove... the atmosphere for the opportunities for life. Nothing will pass or be relegated... my answers will surprise you… for whatever the questions might be… for whom the answers are no threat. Primal Therapy to its proper
Frank
An email comment: "After having read all the basic books by Arthur Janov,I was wondering why does nt he put straight what he believes exactly concerning homosexuality.That there is no such condition neither latent homosexuality,that the problem is stress and homosexuality is part of the general condition called stress..And as soon as one is fullfilled and mind,feelings and body unite,all symptoms dissapear or are eliminated."
ReplyDeleteAnd my answer:
ReplyDeleteYou want me to put straight my feelings a about homosexuality. Some of my previous senior therapist were gay but that has nothing to do with it. I have a scientific attitude and a personal one. The scientific one is found in Life Before Birth and Primal Healing and also The Biology of Love. Personally, it is so hard to find someone you love and who loves you that any marriage is fine with me. Look at animals. A rhino fell in love with a turtle and a polar bear with a dog, which is on my blog. So who can make rules about love. art
Frank: Is there something missing? art
ReplyDeleteI applaud Dr Janov's public stance on this issue which seems eminently reasonable. And I am also happy that Jack Waddington has not taken offense. That being said, I personally would not get up at a conference publicly , at this point,and defend this stance out of fear of the irrationnal reactions which it would spark. But at some point, a public defense would have to be taken by anyone accepting this view of homosexuality, or you just can't call yourself scientific. Naturally, you would have to clearly distinguish a scientific stance from a judgemental moral condemnation which so many Christians profess, despite stating that they do not condemn the sinner, "only" the "sin".That would not be easy.
ReplyDeleteThis question has brought up another hot-button issue: abortion. Personally I feel uneasy about abortion, even before three months. When I read Janov stating that parts of the nervous system are fully formed by 10- 20 weeks, that there is feeling very early,etc.. that makes me uneasy.That being said, at this point, I would not have sexual relations with any woman who would not agree beforehand to have an abortion, if our precautions did not work.I just cannot be a father for various reasons.
What do you think about this issue, Dr Janov?
Marco
Marco, if you know you 'cannot' be a father, why not have a vasectomy... It is a quick snip and makes your worries go away, at least those about unwittingly becoming a father...
DeleteI agree with you that Janov is eminently reasonable in the matter of homosexuality, and most importantly, by his using a scientific method: "Keep an open mind," he says, "and above all never vote on matters of science..." But as you point out in your mail, the religious are not bound by scientific methods...the invisible-one-above-the-clouds tells the believer what is true and what is not, apparently, and that is often at odds with science... rather than ask Janov about his abortion stance, why not do some scientific studies about fetus life? Then decide for yourself... For me, I feel very reluctant to arbitrarily decide about such things for others. Our freedom-touting American war machine has slaughtered untold thousands of women and children in Iraq and Iran, in Libya, and soon again in Iran, and it goes on and on.... Pat Robertson et al do not talk about that, does they except to justify the murders.... God is not interested in those lives... What I am saying is, I think it is not useful to probe scientists about hot-button issues unless you have an agenda....? Let scientists continue to probe reality using the proven methods.... the rest is dross, in my opinion.
Brian: 3 Things 1) no way in hell I would have a vasectomy! 2)You imply that I would base my decisions on abortion on Janov's opinion. I was just asking his opinion: I, ME, decide issues afterwards . Janov (and no one else) is my guru; a stance I beleive Janov would agree with. And 3)I disagree with your political comments about the USA. Although I am a staunch person of the Left, I do not think the US war machine deliberately slaughters unarmed civilians as you imply. Even in a war I did not support , like in Iraq. As far as Lybia, I totally supported the US -lead military help against Gaddafi. Hats off too to the French President and the English Prime Minister for their help in Lybia, although I usually can't stand anything conservatives do.
DeleteMarco
Hi Marco:
Delete1.Why not?
2.I did not suggest that you might base any opinion on Janov, but that I observe this kind of question at 'authority figures' to often betray an agenda. I am glad you formulate your own opinion, which has not been stated...
3.Google 'civilian deaths' in the various wars started by America. Their surgical strikes kill everybody nearby and sometimes just civilians, not so-called insurgents or enemy forces...
4. America has problems of its own and does not belong in Libya. The war machine does not serve freedom but slavery. The bombs are owned by rich people who could care less where their products explode. Perhaps you do care about true freedom but in my opinion, America is now the most actively dangerous nation in the world. We disagree, Marco.
1) Just thinking about a vasectomy gives me a kind of castration anxiety
Delete2) I have no hidden agenda, and obviously I have no definite opinion on abortion at this time, as would have been clear to you had you read my original statement clearly.I asked Janov specifically because of his psychological findings about childhood, natal, and pre-natal life. I thought maybe these findings might have implications for the abortion debate.
3-4)It's unavoidable in any just war that there will be killing of innocents, and the war in Libya was a just one.If you are a pacifist, then there won't be any killing of innocents by you and your side, "only" the killing of other innocents, oppressed by Nazis for instance, whom pacifists cannot help while they pray and sing Kumbaya. So if the ignorant Ghandis of this world had their way, even more Jews, Poles, homosexuals, etc... would have been killed in WW2.Instead some innocent Germans were unavoidably killed , the lesser evil (not because Germans per se deserve less consideration, but because they unfortunately lived amongst the Nazi cancer). Gaddafi would have slaughtered the resistance people in Benghazi, as he so clearly stated just before the West intervened. I had no reason to doubt it from his previous behavior, and neither did Obama, Cameron, Harper, and Sarkozy.So they intervened to help the resistance, who seem , at this date, a better lot than the Gaddafi clique.
Your ideas are typical of the obsessive unfair unrealistic anti-Americanism that I denounced in a previous comment on another blog by Janov.
just a word of warning; your brain will record traumatic information while you are unconscious under general anaesthetic. if you decide to have an operation, it will add more repressed pain to your system. a repressed memory will send out subliminal alarm signals for the rest of your life or until it is de-repressed (relived and resolved).
Deletei went through a period of having nightmares in which i would feel awful grappling sensations in the right side of my groin and i would wake up, lying on my back, with a strong ache in that region. those experiences MIGHT be connected to an operation i had to correct my undescended right testicle when i was a child. just another primal waiting to happen.
i will never ask a surgeon to slice my semen ducts (aaaaagh!!) but having said that, sometimes an operation is the best solution (art's spine for example....ouch)
as for the debate about wars, i think all people should do as much research as possible before deciding to support a war. propaganda is always biased.
Richard: In the early days more than now we did see primals reliving surgery. We had some controls back then and it appeared real to me. art just because is pain while you are unconscious does not mean it never happened and is not imprinted as a physiologic memory.
DeleteArt,
ReplyDeletelove is a threat for alot of us.
Frank
homosexuality is normal? consensual incest is normal?
ReplyDeletewhat else is normal?
by replacing proper science with convenient statistics, insurance companies and partially gay psychologists have managed to agree on policies that 'feel right'
"A rhino fell in love with a turtle and a polar bear with a dog, which is on my blog. So who can make rules about love. art"
ReplyDeletebrother on sister? scientists believe sibling couples, gay couples, and human-with-animal couples all suffer from a common problem:
they are sexually repelled by each other's sweat (pheromones). they require strong psychological forces to override this ancient chemical instinct. showering helps too.
studies have shown that a woman's waist-hip ratio of 0.7 (divide the measurement of the waist by that of the hips) is one of the strongest physical attractants for the average man. that measurement has been associated with a good ability to bear healthy children.
psychologists say that women like a man with a square jaw, jutting brow, broad shoulders and a strong chest. these features indicate high levels of testosterone which can be associated with hardiness and resistance to disease.
of course there are many other factors:
- ability to feel
- social environment
- hormonal balance
and many other things to think about. but the american psychology association has concluded that homosexuality is normal, so i guess there is no need to study the science after all.
Just some thoughts on sexuality:
ReplyDeleteMaybe part of the reason why we are vulnerable to homosexuality and any other number of sexual deviations, is because human sexuality *by default* is a flexible system(?).
It makes sense that our sexuality be flexible, as a system, to accelerate evolutionary adaption so we can then more rapidly evolve to our conditions.*
Also in ancient tribal societies, which is where have been throughout most of our biological history, we will have had very limited options for mate-selection as compared to today in our mass-civil societies. So, maybe we have evolved to able to be sexually aroused with whatever is ultimately on offer, as historically our sexual orientation couldn't afford to be too rigid? Hence - we can always be a bit "kinky".
Now if these presumptions are correct, then we can see sexuality as being vulnerable to distortions because it's then an "open" system.
And if so, then notable sexual perversion might be one of the most direct indicators that something toxic happened in the womb, or elsewhere very early on. It's kind of like the canary in a coalmine - the sensitive canary is the first to die when the air gets toxic, so it's a good indicator for when something is wrong.
-----------------------------
*I wouldn't be surprised if sexuality is epigenitc too, in that it's meant to respond to environmental conditions. Maybe this is why lower-socioeconomic group woman who grow up in hard and depressing homes are attracted to more "brutish" looking men? Their womb life, on average, told them that they're living in a threatening world and likewise they need their Conan? Just speculating.
I spent much of my 20's with terrible obsessions about being gay. I was happily chasing girls while having what the establishment like to call HOCD. I was sexually abused by my Father from when I was very little and quite obviously to protect myself from the pain of that awful realisation it was perhaps easier to worry I was gay than actually conciously remember the painful truth. I always felt as though this other person inside me would leap out. Quite obviously few children in the 1960's had even heard of a peodophile so the only people who had sex with the same sex were gay people so I suppose that was the easiest and most convenient label to use.
ReplyDeleteI spent most of my life having a relationship with my Father based upon the Stockholm syndrome. If one stays very close to an abuser it's easier not to see who they really are I suppose.
I remember when I was in my mid twenties my Father came to help install a kitchen in my flat. I took him to a party I had been invited to. He spent most of the evening standing between two gay friends of mine and it is now so obvious that he had gone home. he got very drunk and drove us (my flatmate) home. He never liked me to mention the party. Perhaps I always knew Dad was homosexual and every Boy wants to be like his Dad.
Maybe I am a bit homosexual. I don't like the fact. I get very anxious and panicked if I ever think that and always feel calm and pleasantly excited when I am with an attractive woman.
Everyone has a right to be happy. I am married and love my wife. I have lost many male friends because of my obsessions over the years and that really hurts though says more about them than me.
Society is so keen on putting people in boxes so a bloke who has issues about his sexuality is placed fairly and squarely into the "closet gay" box and forced into unhappiness and depression because he is forced to "accept" he is someone he does not want to be and perhaps knows deep down below the painted on person his Parents created that he is straight if only the pain inside would allow him to be so. I am sure my Father's denial of his own issues caused me to pick them up and own them in a way.
If one is rather suggestable as a person and used to having one's personality imposed upon one then it is sometimes difficult to fight off other people's view of one. If enough people start telling a person that the sky is green rather than blue the suggestable person starts to wonder whether there is a hint of green up there. There is a famous UK comedian who is quoted as saying about his own homosexuality "people kept telling me I was gay so in the end I became Gay". I would suggest that if one considers Dr Janov's piece about the development of comedy and other neuroses wanting to be loved and so being an entertainer is perhaps linked to this man's position now. He is this extremely extrovert person but one wonders about how deep his feelings go? He wanted to be loved and accepted and so accepted other people's view of who he was so he could be accepted and loved.
I have found that as I remember things from my past I have changed as a person and perhaps my sexuality has changed. At the moment I feel very blocked and cannot fantasise about sex in my head. I am sure that this is because there are still things to remember and not thinking about sex is simply another avoidance of pain at the moment.
Thanks a lot for the reply planespotter. Very meaningful to me. I am 25, and I am curious to know how you got out of thoses obsessions about being gay... What you said is exactly what I am feeling right now.
DeleteArt,
ReplyDeleteWhen I see the simplicity of life... when I "know"... feel that there is no more to get than what the possibilities gives... when I feel the atmosphere ... the atmosphere of what surrounds me… nothing stands in the way or challenged to be. Atmosphere...the feeling in me from what surrounds me… my own choice to do what is best possible.
Love... the atmosphere for the opportunities for life. Nothing will pass or be relegated... my answers will surprise you… for whatever the questions might be… for whom the answers are no threat... threat to kill us all... Primal Therapy to its proper for humanity.
Frank
@Andrew, As far as I am concerned, Andrew, your prejudicial aberration is quite common, and you should still be allowed to parent...yes, even you. There is a wonderful song by Solomon Burke that you made me think of.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cou_qZjc_yI
ReplyDeletenot in your rather coarse parallel of homosexuality with Down Syndrome but in the drift of your statement that goes on to let us know that you find homos unfit for parenting. Way off base and not what Janov is suggesting in my opinion... why go there? Any ideas? Nobody is going to suggest that a mom is not needed by a child... the idea is close to nonsense but to take such a stance, and then say same sex couples shouldn't be parents, is simply shallow. What shall we do with all these kids? Do they deserve love? Do you imagine that a homo parent is somehow less capable than you or me? Open your mind and heart.... maybe you could actually be as good a parent as the next queer but your writing here does not make me feel comfortable with you 'babysitting' my kids. By the way, readers, I have nothing against etc. etc.
To Andrew:
ReplyDeleteYou say “homosexuality is like down syndrome”. Hitler labeled homosexuality an “abart”
(abnormal/perverse/unnatural), because he was looking for a biomedically perfect race without blemish.
Is “abnormal/perverse/unnatural” what you are referring too?
Sieglinde
"sometimes science is fascist". wow, that's a heavy statement. might want to rephrase that.
ReplyDeleteRichard: and your point is? art
ReplyDeleteGrumpy: What I mean is that it doesn't care about your feelings or hurts; it tries always to tell the truth no matter what the consequences. art
ReplyDeleteLoneliness... I dressed a Christmas tree just before Christmas... I made it so nice I could... it has been in its corner and lit up at Christmas but no one came by and noticed how nice it was... it was standing there for more then three weeks. Today... I've taken out the tree and I become alon for ever with that feeling… the feeling of trying to make a nice cristmas… have someone to se me but I failed. I know how this has been my daily life… throughout my life... I have always failed... that's the way my loneliness has been and always will be… for what there was for me. Some of you know how that feels.
ReplyDeleteFrank
art, my point is, we (everyone on this planet) must stop encouraging each other to believe everything is normal.
ReplyDeletei went to a family reunion a few weeks ago. my sister pulled out an anti-child book called 'Go the Fuck to Sleep'. she started reading it out loud and immediately everyone was laughing and saying stuff like "that's so true!"
hahahahaha!
hahahahaha!
hahahahaha!
all of the parents cherished the book and it's sick humour. they started using their own children (sitting nearby) as prime examples of just how annoying and horrible children can be. hahahahaha!
hahahahaha!
and of course the children were not amused.
when i'd finally had enough, i interrupted and complained about the unloving tone of the book, and how it encourages people to think that it's NORMAL for children to be horrible and annoying, and NORMAL for parents to reject their children every time they become a nuisance....as if there is no reason for the child's 'bad' behaviour.
nobody showed the slightest sign of discomfort even though i had just destroyed all the laughing and joking. instead, a few bold parents told me i shouldn't take it to heart...it's all in good fun...it's just a light-hearted view of all the things that parents understand. then all the other parents agreed that i was overreacting.
many of them know that my brother and i are primal "zealots"....it's become common knowledge in our family. it's really sick how they get together and reinforce each other's view of NORMALITY.
liposuction and breast implants....cosmetic surgery has become a NORMAL thing to do. i saw a video of a girl waking up in the operating room, it was very soon after her brutal liposuction operation....she sat up with a look of horror on her face. the surgeon tried to comfort her. she 'knew' something terrible had just happened to her. the people next to me thought her reaction must be pretty common and NORMAL because the surgeon was not alarmed at all. no big deal. none of them knew about the way the brain records traumatic information.
getting drunk in the weekend: NORMAL
obesity: NORMAL
bisexuality: NORMAL
school: NORMAL
girls covered in huge tattoos: NORMAL
guys shaving their pubes and showing their friends how to do it: NORMAL
buying a house you can't afford: NORMAL
in new zealand electro-convulsive therapy has become: NORMAL
everybody living without love: NORMAL
we want everything to be normal and unquestioned. we need to start spreading a new message: NOTHING IS NORMAL. WE ARE SICK.
we need to get through to the people with power and money. frank wants to do it in the courts. good luck. everybody thinks the corporate leaders and politicians are sick. good. everybody thinks the "child abusers" are sick. good. now let's include the rest of us. you, me and the people in the american psychology association. we are ALL sick, and we have science to prove it. and we have science to prove there is a cure.
I apologise for the down syndrome association. I was trying to be matter-of-fact in the expression of my view, and I was hoping it would be interpreted on that level. I chose down syndrome as the association because it's roughly as common as homosexuality, consistent in its nature, and we all know of it...BUT, we would also all agree that down syndrome happens when things don't happen the way they're supposed to happen. I.e. we can't call it "normal" just because it's common, which is effectively what we're trying to do with homosexuality. I didn't mean to suggest that homosexuals are degenerate or deserve any less respect than anyone else. But they do, in my opinion, have an aberrant condition.
ReplyDeleteSieglinde: I don't believe in gassing people who don't measure up to my standards. But I do believe there is a case for not allowing children to be born to parents who have a high risk of passing on serious disorders to their offspring. Nature shares my view - she is a ruthless eugenicists...and why? Because that is what it takes to maintain the biological health of a species, whether we like it or not. Or is that wrong?
Brian: If I was a baby about to be adopted out I would want a mum and a dad - not a dad-dad or mum-mum parental relationship. Other things being equal, I feel the baby should come first and we should stick with natures way. I believe we're playing with fire to do otherwise.
Thanks for the reply Andrew.... regarding nature and 'natural', homosexuality is of nature and natural even if it results from conditions in the womb or in early life not being ideal or perfect. Not everyone needs to procreate and some of us cannot but we all need to love and be loved. When we are babies, we don't waste time on foolishness regarding sexual orientation... There is no doubt in my mind that a baby needs much affection, to be held and loved and 'mothered' and there is no doubt in my mind that some homosexual men are far better at expressing emotions like this than many, many men who are proud heterosexuals. My own parents would say what you do regarding homosexuality and for them, religion too. For them, believing in the pie-in-the-sky God is natural and true.... but as babies seeking to latch on and bond, they too would not care if an atheist took them up and loved the heck out of them..... we have so many prejudices, passed along from generation to generation. Babies do not share those aberrations as far as I can see.... best wishes, Andrew.
DeleteAndrew: do we have a right to set rules for other people?
DeleteAs long as the child is not harmed, we should not try to control.
What happens when someone allows oneself to judge or take over peoples' “welfare”, is now in part evident in the USA.
Please read:
N.C. to Compensate Victims of Sterilization in 20th Century Eugenics Program
North Carolina will become the first state to compensate victims of a mass sterilization program that targeted poor minorities in a 20th century eugenics program, offering a $50,000 a person.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/WomensHealth/north-carolina-compensate-victims-eugenics-program-sterilized/story?id=15328707#.Tw9Gfvms_MA
Sieglinde
Sieglinde: Thank you - and yes, I know. I make no apology for the ugly and stupid things that have happened around forced sterilizations in the past. Especially as it was based on such halfway science.
DeleteBut we will ultimately need things like active population control in the future, and this will require rules. On this level it doesn't so much come down to philosophy but blunt resource limits. And if the health of our species will degrade because we unfalteringly facilitate the "survival of the weak", then we have to confront what the long term results of that will be.
These are difficult questions, but again survival comes before anything in the end.
Andrew, I hear you.
DeleteBut science and all decisions are made by people.
"population control".
I still shiver when I remember the words my father told me;
“We've got to have order and rules to save the Arian Nation and everybody has to obey by these rules - everyone else must be eliminated.”
Sieglinde
"As long as the child is not harmed, we should not try to control."
Deletesieglinde, most children are harmed and most parents do not want to understand. i have tried to educate literally hundreds of people on primal theory, and almost all of them refuse to even think about it. the primal center cannot help the willfully ignorant. what can we do?
we need primal-educated people in government. we need new laws to ensure better birthing practices, and we need charismatic politicians who are interested in the origins of crime. we need to introduce primal to the political world.
Richard
Delete"we need primal-educated people in government"
I agree. Now, how do we go about it?
Suggestion # 1: finding university (psychology)students in every city who would read
"Life Before Birth" to an mixed audience?
The abusers would need "JPT" and primal education, but they are the ones who won't listen.
I know children are abused, but not all.
Sieglinde
Sieglinde: Now you can understand why we need to stop (many) people from having children in the first place! It's the only realistic solution to stop the cycle of severe abuse.
DeleteFrank, I love that "Love... the atmosphere for the opportunities for life". I'm thinking about how lack of love thwarts development- opportunities for life, of becoming who we are. Jacquie
ReplyDeleteart, while you were in the EEG machine you got someone to tap your foot to keep you distracted so that you couldn't panic. you said "it worked". i don't know what you mean. i suspect you guys use distraction techniques at the beginning of a primal session. did you primal inside the machine? if so, did you get a digital recording of your brain activity and did it provide any useful data? that would be fascinating.
ReplyDeletegrumpy,
ReplyDeleteProfessionalism is thus fascism... I am thinking about the consistency that usually follows in the professionalization’s footsteps... power to implement what seams best for them self’s... self’s within the bounds of what professionalism can achieve… and that is not a minor phenomenon in view of those who lost their lives as they assist Copernicus about the earth not to be the center of the universe. The role as a professor do not only concerns the area as a professor... the leaking pain also infect that content... the leaking pain is a power over all of what science contains… over values for what the professions contains. We would have primal therapy if that was not the case.
Frank
Frank:
ReplyDeleteHi.
You wrote, as an example: "when I feel the atmosphere ...of what surrounds me… nothing stands in the way or challenged to be."
I don't mean to be rude. I know you're trying to communicate important things. However, your sentences often leave me baffled. Many times I don't get your points.
Is there someone more language-savvy who could vet your submissions?
I'm sure you have many good, insightful, helpful, even wonderful things to say. Alas, they're not being communicated. At least not in English.
Aside from religious teachings against homosexuality, there's some anger directed at gays based on other things.
ReplyDelete(1) Gays now seem to act like "queerness" is superior to heterosexuality. It's probably an over-reaction from being on societal shit-lists for centuries, but still: a little moderation by spokesperson and advocates would be welcomed.
(2) The needs of a lot of "straight" men are back-burnered to help "one-legged, blind, albino transgendered queers." For example, millions of divorced fathers are now kept from their own children. Raised to "man-up" and not complain they suffer silently. Meanwhile, they hear gays (deemed effeminate and so allowed to be expressive...like females) claim that PAQs ("people of queerness") have the only problems in life.
(3) Gay Pride parades, where "priders" prance around half (or fully) naked," performing fake (or real) sex acts, ain't the best way to honor group membership. You don't see the Irish celebrating car-bombs during St. Patrick's Day parades. Plus kid see the antics of Pride prancers.
(4) For understandable reasons, gays for decades mocked marriage as a prison created by stupid "breeders" living in stifled conformity. Straight married couples were jeered as saps stuck in ticky-tacky houses with odious "rug rats." The truly GOOD LIFE life was gay: bathhouses, drugs, sex, etc...all in excess, the more the merrier. But now? Those same mockers swear marriage is the bee's knees: a wonderful thing! They bill and coo about raising kids in safe, comfortable, ticky-tacky neighborhoods...and DEMAND the right to do so. You can't blame non -gays for being a little skeptical.
Gays are just as cliquey, small-minded, biased, arrogant, obnoxious, rude, crude, and lewd as any other group. It might help if they started admitting that. And acted accordingly.
Brian: Got it .art
ReplyDeleteRichard: You cannot primal in a machine when you cannot move your ahead…so, no. We do not use distraction in primal. Sometimes patients get distracted and we help bring them back on track. art I go in today for contrast MRI so I will let you know. art
ReplyDeleteArt: what are you having scanned? I hope you are ok &that you live as long as possible. Jacquie
ReplyDeleteTrevor: You say "(1) Gays now seem to act like "queerness" is superior to heterosexuality. It's probably an over-reaction from being on societal shit-lists for centuries, but still: a little moderation by spokesperson and advocates would be welcomed."
ReplyDeleteI fully agree with you Trevor that when you get 'gays' (homosexuals) as a group they can be quite nauseating: but they are not the only minority group that indulges in this manner. Jews do it, Whites when they find themselves in a minority group do it, Matcho men at football stadiums do it. and many more groups when in a minority situation temporarily do it.
My father was for ever promoting our British-ness; telling us to be proud of being British. On day I suggested to him 'Should Germans be ashamed of themselves then'. He paused for a second and then suggested that they might be proud of being German; to which I asked "So What is the point".
In older times it was suggested that having a inferior complex often lead to one behaving superior, in order to validate ones ethnicity or whatever. I remember at one retreat in Santa Barbara two of the therapist promoting their Jewishness. I blurted out "Stop being Jewish ... start being human ... then continued with "stop being British ... start being human" The subject ended abruptly, little realizing that I might have said something significant.
It will be my life's endeavor to ask people to stop separating themselves and realizing we ALL need to collectively co-operate with one another. Life is way to short for the alternative.
Jack
PS Incidentally in my earlier comments I wrote "My pet hates are religions for making homosexuality an adoration, " In attempting to spell check I picked the wrong word, I mean to say "abomination".
J
Trevor,
ReplyDeleteThere is a generalized comment you post... I do not know in detail what it is you do not understand? I know that my English is not the best but I also think my opinions many times is of the dignity who talk about something in the parable of the earth's gravity... it is not easy to perceive without the science of its existence. That is a very good explanation of Art for us to understand how difficult it can be to understand feelings. Even for Art it can be difficult to understand an explanation of an emotional nature... it is intensely personal and often requires new perspectives to give color to its content… while explained.
Frank
Trevor
ReplyDelete"Gays now seem to act like 'queerness'".
Could there be a primal "need" behind this queerness?
"Aside from religious teachings against homosexuality, there's some anger directed at gays based on other things."
Why do people reject everything that is different?
Could fear be the the bottom line?
Sieglinde
Jacquie: Scanning my throat hoping for stem cell therapy. thanks for asking art
ReplyDeleteHi Jack,
ReplyDeleteI just have to totally agree with you about Human ness Being more important than mere "membership" of an 'elite'. You use the word minority but quickly minorities become 'elites'.
Minorities become elites. Who can see how that happens? Each 'nuclear family' can become an 'elite'. We are We and They are not Us. No; They are Them. We know Better. They are Inferior. . . We should be triumphant.
My experience of so called membership of the British Establishment at boarding School left me feeling like a zombie. An angry and rebellious zombie looking for a way to retrieve who I was (before membership of that elite turned me into a zombie).
Zombies obey the witch doctor. Zombies become witch doctors. . . Or try to.
My message to all zombies out there trying to free y ourselves from the witch doctor?
-"We can, there is a way, from right inside your self, sack the witch doctor".
Paul G.
Great Paul; I think I would have died had I been sent to a boarding school. That's the only commendation about coming for a poor family in the North of England. I could home after school each day.
DeleteJack
Hi Trevor,
ReplyDeleteI feel what Frank might be saying parabolically, is that when you are really feeling, fully, what is going on around you, there is no attachment, fear or confusion. . . Things just Are.
The trauma in feelings is like a blockage with pressure behind. . . when the atmosphere surrounding us is tense. The resonance 'pushes us', 'railroads us'. . .
Without neurosis (ie; with full feeling) we are utterly non attached but also completely aware and conscious of all around us.
Too many words, Frank, what are you trying to say?
Paul G.
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteAbortion is an interesting issue. A developing fetus has great potential. But in the early weeks, it is not much different than a chicken developing within an egg or a rat growing in its mom. Some say God forbids it but I have written a solid article refuting that idea. Here is mine. While terminating a life in the womb, preferably in the 1st months as I see it, is deemed horrific by some, I can only point out that death is not always the worst thing that can happen to someone. The Bible says that, too. Christians just prefer to ignore it, which is why psychology has always interested me, due to that self-deception factor present in us all.
Life without love is a God-forsaken hell. I would never wish that on anyone. I see what it did to my father. It should never be allowed. So when someone says there is no such thing as hell, they are right about that fire stuff but they are not right about the suffering and torment. Just setting the record straight ;-)
BTW, you sound bit like Marco, no? Nazis were real SOBs. But Let’s not kid ourselves and say Jews are saints and innocents. No nation or race on earth has any claim to sainthood. Jews have lots of influence on nations, politics, armies and business, even as some others do. They are not weak and helpless. They can do as they please as long as they leave me out of it.
Your implications are that pacifists are pussies that let innocents die. That’s pure BS. Let me relate something I know a bit about. Jehovah’’s Witnesses were alive and well in pre WWII Germany. They certainly were pacifists. Had the rest of Germany been so, you never would have had any problems. Now I am no fan of JWs, but I do highly respect their pacifist stance. They were treated worse than Jews in concentration camps. Oh, it’s a fact. I got Jews who were there and can tell you that. JWs were despised and tormented like no other group on those camps. And why??? Because they were pacifists!
I guess Adolf was terrified of pacifists. They hindered his great imperialist dreams, I suppose. So if you want to blame, blame those willing to fight and kill, not pacifists. Being a JW in Germany during WWII no was F###*** picnic! But no one was more innocent for being in those camps than they were. Some Jews were communists and made trouble. Not JWs!
It takes a lot of guts to resist your own war mongering nation and its grand ambitions. There will be no rewards or thanks for it, either. It takes real guts to stand up against people who are not tolerant and not afraid to resort to violence and bullying cause you don’t see things as they do. Get off your high horse, and come down to reality.
Apollo: I could not say it better: life without love is a God-forsaken hell. art
DeleteApollo: it is you who must come back to reality. Pacifists have good loving instincts, but will do nothing violent to defend others, and violence is sometimes needed. Just wars are the humane alternative to both pacifists and sadistic Nazi warmongers. Humane just warriors counter the psychopaths and the sadists and the fascists, and create a better world.
DeleteMarco
Part 1.
ReplyDeleteHi Jack,
I did nearly die, psychologically, actually at times I still feel dead.
What I have to say now is controversial but I speak as an ex-boarding school survivor and as an expert on how British Society is controlled on every street corner and in every crevice of the mind.
The worse thing about having been a member of the English Establishment is that the whole of the British Empire & 'Common Wealth' (Massive, Matriarchal, Mono-theistic Monarchy) conspires to keep this ruling elite establishment in power by traumatising their children from an early age in certain very specific ways. This is Intentional Emotional Abuse.
Basically British Society is a macrocosm of it's Sick Matriarchal Royal family. The elite boarding school system is specifically designed to abuse children in such a way as to cause them to return to the same sick symbiosis. Allegiance to the abuser, in hope of reward for Loyalty. To Mother, oh Queen and font of all Englishness and Homiliness and Love.
I have said something about Sick Patriarchy already; well, there is a sick Matriarchy hiding behind it. You see, all our mothers (of us boys and girls) were also all acting out at the school gates/ railway platform/ front door of home/ Acting out saying 'Farewell'. Like the mothers in East Africa who oversee the Ritual brutal mutilation of their daughters' vaginas, in UK still to this day there are mothers 'overseeing' the Ritual brutal emotional amputation of their children "sent away". This adds new meaning to the words: "Feeling Cut Up".
We truly are still in the dark ages; no matter how much 'pastoral care' is delivered to the in-mates of these latter day Brainwashing Prisons for Rich Kids, the kids are still being brainwashed to obey in an authoritarian structure in which they also see them selves as "The Authority". Even more so because they believe in suffering intentional torture and pain without flinching. This works.
You see, even to this day we English still believe we are the Master Race, everybody else is just 'foreigners'. Adolf Hitler was fascinated by the English Royal Establishment and with King Edward in particular, (the abdicated king at break of WW2 who was as messed up about his mother as any ex-boarding school survivor could be). We English nearly capitulated because our elite (mother fixated) ruling class nearly bought into Adolfs' flattery. Later in the 1930s the ruling classes in England saw Hitler as a nasty little brat and inferior. You can imagine the pleasure Adolf got when a few years later he got to obliterate London, nearly. I digress.
Part 2 follows.
Paul: I was there during the blitz, standing in Piccadilly Square and watching the ruins everywhere. art
DeleteHi Paul
DeleteYes the UK is a really sick messed up Society. The stiff upper lip everyone is so proud of speaks volumes about the repression of feelings in this country. The mental health system in this country is also part of that control and abuse of people. I often think that there is little difference between Stalin sending politicial prisoners to mental hospitals and the uk's treatment of people with mental distress. Putting someone on pills is also a way of shutting someone up and not helping them deal with their trauma. Why should many physciatrists and physcologists help someone else when they have never dealt with their own childhood trauma. One well known writer and Physcologist Oliver James said on Radio 4 last year that he believed that only about 30% of the uk population were truly sane. So that's only 30% of the mental health profession truly sane in this country.
And yes there was much support for Hitler in the UK. Some Farmers in East Anglia (in the flight path of German bombers on their way to bomb the major cities) used to plough huge arrows into the soil pointing the Bombers in the right direction.
Part 2.
ReplyDeleteWhat nobody seems to realise to this day is that Hitler loved the ruling elite in England precisely because the "Great Leaders" and their children are all Ritually Traumatised in Boarding Schools, repeatedly for years. This model for a "Brave New Order" of ruling elitism was also taken up by the Japanese & Kamikazi as well as the Hitler Youth Movement. Many of the officers in charge of the Japanese camps in Burma and the military in general had themselves been 'brainwashed' in English boarding schools. The Japanese ruling Elite (like Hitler) were in love with English Ruling Culture and falling over themselves to pack lovely little Hirohitos off to punishment camp.
The advantage to the mothers who collude in this Global Crime of Mass Proportions should not go unmentioned.
I believed for years that it must be all the fathers' fault, that they all bullied the mothers into it, ie: it must only all be Sick Patriarchs' fault. It's pretty much what the old school feminism is based on. But when you realise that ' old school' of feminism was born from the burgeoning middle and upper middle classes in London in well to do Edwardian times you can see that the mothers had not really made the connection. . . ie: many of the middle class feminists still packed their sons and daughters off to punishment camp. Then after punishment camp off to the War. Certainly there were many great female dissenters at that time, but they were in the minority.
There were then (as now) not armed guards pointing guns at these mothers' heads either.
Actually that's really rather the point isn't it? Both the mothers and fathers can stiffen up and hold back the tears for England whilst little Jonny (or Jane) does the same and in his (or her) smart suit turn around and walk through the school gates to Hell.
This makes us strong people doesn't it? I mean, then when some-one else in the ranks 'cracks' and freaks out aggressively the group finger can be pointed and the bad seed removed. Weeded Out.
The entire language structure in this authoritarian dynamic is biased toward cognitive repression and to the presumption of authority by MERIT. I'm good because I'm rich and powerful; you are bad because you are poor and illiterate, or worse, you work with your hands. Wealth & Power over others is Strength. It certainly guarantees the survival of your own particular clan. It is ultimately extremely attractive to breeding age females.
So basically the frightening thing about this English Meritocracy is that it is underpinned by the Matriarchal Kinship, right the way through the class system, the educational system, the National Health System and even into Child Protection Policy and Implementation.
It might be a bit jaded now but D H Lawrences' "The Rainbow" is a worthy tribute to this 'English Problem'. There's a film version of it by some famous director, can't remember his name, highly recommendable.
Paul G.
I have read that the more males a woman gestates, the more her immune system will begin to attack male hormones in the foetus; which can lead to younger male siblings developing in a more feminine way(Their brains I suppose), and thus being more likely to be gay.
ReplyDeleteThis may account for some homosexuality, and in those case seems unrelated to neurosis.
Russ
Paul, thank-you for this observation of a British version of child abuse that continues on, unabated... There is an American version too, quite as toxic but one that can be better explained by someone other than me... Psychohistory does something in this regard, shows how some of the world's children have been actively and purposefully abused through the ages... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychohistory. I am interested in Janovian PT because it aims to end the abuse of children beginning with the survivors we are...
ReplyDeletehi brian thanks for the link. just for the record, it's called "Janov's Primal Therapy"
Deleteif you Google it you will end up at the official website. if you use the word "Janovian" Google will give you some cheap uninformative websites. some of those websites argue against JPT (like that?) but they don't provide the slightest shred of objective information. i think it's important to lead newcomers to the facts first so that they will be able to see the ignorance in the anti-primal arguments.
Thanks for the heads-up Richard.... I tell people to look for the old(er) guy with the white Afro...he's the real McCoy... Janov's PT, it is!
DeleteFor Arthur,
ReplyDeleteYes, a living F'ing hell and you have seen it far many more times than I have, in treating people. Your endorsement is much appreciated.
Hi Art,
ReplyDeleteHow is it you were in London as well as the Pacific in the 1940s'? This all gets too interesting, please tell us more. . . My Dad saw the horrors of a blown up Routemaster (double decker bus) as a schoolboy in London. He's about 3yrs younger than you.
Paul G
Paul: I served there Aleutian chain and chased the japanese back to their home. then was transferred to the south pacific and did five battles down there and then to Europe to get ready to cross the channel to capture the submarine based in Brest France, and on and on.
DeleteHey Dr. Janov, speaking of your biography, always meant to ask:
ReplyDelete"It is not enough to feel the hurt, one must go further and feel the basic need. A patient who is able to feel about a parent in context: Why do you hate me so much? still has not reached the core need. Please love me. This is finally what healing is about. Without this step the distress and tears are neverending because the basic unmet need, the agonizing trauma that is the reason for repression in the first place remains intact."
-Why You Get Sick How You Get Well audiobook
We know the story of how you witnessed the scream that changed everything, and when/how exactly did you witness and discover this, that its reliving the need that cures? and that all the tears will be neverending until it happens.
Kaz: It is unfulfilled need turns into pain. We must not only pain but precise need in order to be liberated. And never "why do you hate me?" that is a whole different level. but so far so good. thanks art
DeleteI agree that the APA’s position on homosexuality is misguided. That being said, I would hesitate to categorize all cases of homosexuality as neurosis, since the jury is still out on the science front. I would speculate though that the majority of cases would fall into the nurture category.
ReplyDeleteMy belief on causation:
Humans have a very long maturation period. Unlike lower animals that are ruled more by instinct, humans need role models to learn what they will need to succeed. I believe somewhere along the way humans became less hardwired in regards to gender orientation, which necessitated the need for role models. It might be that a child reared under ideal conditions, without good same sex role models could still become heterosexual, but “ideal conditions” is a rarity in my opinion.
I think most cases of homosexuality are really gender role orientation issues. If you miss the opportunity to identify with your same sex you will become polarized in the opposite. This is the crux of the matter in my opinion. Sex is a play of opposites - masculine/feminine. If you’re polarized in the opposite your sexual attraction will be the same sex. There really is no “homo” per se when it comes to sex.
I believe in order to change a homosexual orientation a person needs to find a way to identify with the same sex. PT may be helpful, but I doubt that it alone is the best way to help a person change their orientation.
The other problem, especially in males, is that their frequent sexual impulses act like an electrical short when attempting to identify with their same sex and become hetero. Imagine trying to bond/identify with other males, but your sexual desires are still linked to same sex. This, it seems to me is a hurdle that needs to be overcome through repeated attempts to identify with the same sex.
I believe with the right kind of support/therapy a person can change their orientation. I believe when a person can bond/identify with their own sex that this will bring about wholeness.
The mainstream mental health system is impotent and inadequate. Talk therapy isn’t going to get the job done. There are no shortcuts or easy solutions to help people with neurosis. Band-aids don’t cure anything. We simply have to go deeper and deal with our feelings. Everyone here knows that.
I didn't see any anecdotes here that related to symbolically needing affection from your Dad? As Art pointed out, trauma at birth and in the womb are 1st line representations of homosexual behavior. On the second line though it would? could? be a cold, distant homophobe of a father. Bi-sexuality may be inherent in all of us but repressing "gay" thoughts may bring on fear of "what if I am?"
ReplyDeleteI guess this is the latent homosexuality spoken of in psychiatric terminology. Having been straight all my life and lusting after women has made me feel that I am oriented as heterosexual. The scary "feeling" I suppress are symbolically related to "Dad. please love me, I need you." Perhaps early warmth from a female, my mother orients me mainly to wanting sex only with women? I actually don't have the scary "feelings" anymore as I resolve my need for my dad.
Interesting…your experience seems to support the position of “homosexuality” being a neurosis. However, your comment about bi-sexuality possibly being inherent in all of us seems to indicate that it may also be in-born. Do you believe that both possibilities can coexist?
ReplyDeleteZW: You misread my views. look again. art
DeleteHello Mr. Janov,
ReplyDeleteIt’s an honor to respond to you! My life changed after reading the Primal Scream some 20 years ago. Your work is truly inspirational.
Actually, I was replying to the anonymous poster just above my post. For some reason I’m unable to use the reply function on this blog, so my post went as a general comment.
It seems like many people, even in this community, have doubts as to whether homosexuality is truly a neurosis. This is understandable, especially considering the APA’s position as well as all of the gay rights issues being debated around the globe.
ReplyDeleteIndeed, a person needs to be pretty brave in this day and age to voice a dissenting opinion on the topic.
I’d like to spend some time discussing what I consider to be some of the biggest stumbling blocks for people in their attempt to understand this issue.
I will take the position that most examples of homosexuality are the result of neurosis and present some arguments to support this position. For simplicities sake I will reference male sexuality.
If nature allows for homosexuality, then can it truly be neurotic? Maybe homosexuality is a natural variation, and for some, an expression of their deepest self.
Some would argue for instance, that a male who is naturally more effeminate as a result of genetics or hormones might be more suited to homosexuality.
Do the arguments above hold up?
I believe that regardless of outward characteristics, a male’s physical traits, genitalia most importantly, predisposes them to be male dominant. If this is true, then it stands to reason, that given a nurturing and supportive early environment, a male should become heterosexual.
Many examples can be found of males with effeminate characteristics who exhibit heterosexual preferences. On the flip side, many examples can be found of males with very masculine characteristics who exhibit homosexual preferences.
So, if most cases of homosexuality are the result of early trauma, which I believe to be true, so what?
Many homosexuals have reached the highest level of achievement – the entertainment industry comes to mind, but I’m sure an inexhaustible list, representing all walks of life, could be created. So, it would seem that homosexuality isn’t all that debilitating.
The same however, could be said of neurotics of many persuasions, including addicts and depressives. Their successes may be due to strong support systems later in life, which would help offset their neurosis and underlying stress.
I believe children need a supportive environment in order to express their masculine side. Assertiveness and aggression in children could easily trigger neurotic parents, resulting in punishment. As such, it may be safer for these children to suppress their masculinity. This, in my opinion, can cause homosexuality, which is really just a symptom of repression, resulting in neurosis.
I contend that suppressed masculinity is the crux of the matter. When a person can safely explore their masculinity, I believe they will awaken that side of themselves that was never given permission to develop. As this exploration and identification deepens, I believe they will experience the lightness and joy that comes from resolving their repression.
Ultimately, it’s an individual’s choice, whether or not to undertake steps to resolve their deepest neurotic issues and become their optimum selves.
Again, the APA’s position on this issue is abhorrent. People should have the choice to explore their deepest issues and be supported to that end.
That is the sum of it. 'Let us have a vote on which science/opinion we are most conveniently positioned to endorse'
ReplyDeleteDuring high school persecution I was frequently called a 'faggot'. I then did start to wonder. Particularly when I would feel a panicky terror when startled by any male with their face concealed. Took reading the 1st Edition Primal Scream to make me consider the feeling underlying this, instead of whether or not it made me 'gay'.
I guess I still could be a 'latent homosexual' Can't say that bothers me in all honesty now. Anything is better than nothing, as the saying goes. In the absence of an ability to emotionally bond with women at the time of puberty, it may well be natures way of preserving the psyche from further damage in the barren hell of having no one in life.
Human society seems to me so obsessed over what is and what is not normal, we have forgotten how to enjoy/laugh at our differences. However 'kinky' they may be. There was a point in here somewhere, I'm dammed if I can find it though.
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ReplyDeleteMy dear Kent, I have treated over 100 gay men and have done research on it. It is NEVER a choice. I explain it in more details in my book Sex and the Unconscious. If it is simply a choice why cannot some of my patients, who want to change, make a choice not to be gay? art
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