tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post1396459246619529261..comments2024-02-11T18:16:53.445-08:00Comments on Janov's Reflections on the Human Condition: The Simple Truth is Revolutionary: On Homosexuality as a Normal Variant of Human SexualityArthur Janovhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16709863014923629409noreply@blogger.comBlogger79125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-35731985737754797692015-08-21T10:21:06.446-07:002015-08-21T10:21:06.446-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Kent Rosenthalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07320159879527229058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-72074441410233229632015-08-14T10:11:58.888-07:002015-08-14T10:11:58.888-07:00My dear Kent, I have treated over 100 gay men and...My dear Kent, I have treated over 100 gay men and have done research on it. It is NEVER a choice. I explain it in more details in my book Sex and the Unconscious. If it is simply a choice why cannot some of my patients, who want to change, make a choice not to be gay? artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-30102694557017783342015-08-14T06:14:12.967-07:002015-08-14T06:14:12.967-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Kent Rosenthalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07320159879527229058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-14328016976382871452013-07-30T20:48:39.055-07:002013-07-30T20:48:39.055-07:00Thanks a lot for the reply planespotter. Very mean...Thanks a lot for the reply planespotter. Very meaningful to me. I am 25, and I am curious to know how you got out of thoses obsessions about being gay... What you said is exactly what I am feeling right now.Ednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-58496928286856922452012-04-29T05:24:34.756-07:002012-04-29T05:24:34.756-07:00That is the sum of it. 'Let us have a vote on ...That is the sum of it. 'Let us have a vote on which science/opinion we are most conveniently positioned to endorse'<br /><br />During high school persecution I was frequently called a 'faggot'. I then did start to wonder. Particularly when I would feel a panicky terror when startled by any male with their face concealed. Took reading the 1st Edition Primal Scream to make me consider the feeling underlying this, instead of whether or not it made me 'gay'.<br /><br />I guess I still could be a 'latent homosexual' Can't say that bothers me in all honesty now. Anything is better than nothing, as the saying goes. In the absence of an ability to emotionally bond with women at the time of puberty, it may well be natures way of preserving the psyche from further damage in the barren hell of having no one in life.<br /><br />Human society seems to me so obsessed over what is and what is not normal, we have forgotten how to enjoy/laugh at our differences. However 'kinky' they may be. There was a point in here somewhere, I'm dammed if I can find it though.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12305432174583622412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-24042929079682832932012-03-11T16:23:02.098-07:002012-03-11T16:23:02.098-07:00It seems like many people, even in this community,...It seems like many people, even in this community, have doubts as to whether homosexuality is truly a neurosis. This is understandable, especially considering the APA’s position as well as all of the gay rights issues being debated around the globe.<br />Indeed, a person needs to be pretty brave in this day and age to voice a dissenting opinion on the topic.<br /><br />I’d like to spend some time discussing what I consider to be some of the biggest stumbling blocks for people in their attempt to understand this issue.<br /><br />I will take the position that most examples of homosexuality are the result of neurosis and present some arguments to support this position. For simplicities sake I will reference male sexuality.<br /><br />If nature allows for homosexuality, then can it truly be neurotic? Maybe homosexuality is a natural variation, and for some, an expression of their deepest self.<br /><br />Some would argue for instance, that a male who is naturally more effeminate as a result of genetics or hormones might be more suited to homosexuality. <br /><br />Do the arguments above hold up? <br /><br />I believe that regardless of outward characteristics, a male’s physical traits, genitalia most importantly, predisposes them to be male dominant. If this is true, then it stands to reason, that given a nurturing and supportive early environment, a male should become heterosexual.<br /><br />Many examples can be found of males with effeminate characteristics who exhibit heterosexual preferences. On the flip side, many examples can be found of males with very masculine characteristics who exhibit homosexual preferences.<br /><br />So, if most cases of homosexuality are the result of early trauma, which I believe to be true, so what? <br /><br />Many homosexuals have reached the highest level of achievement – the entertainment industry comes to mind, but I’m sure an inexhaustible list, representing all walks of life, could be created. So, it would seem that homosexuality isn’t all that debilitating.<br /><br />The same however, could be said of neurotics of many persuasions, including addicts and depressives. Their successes may be due to strong support systems later in life, which would help offset their neurosis and underlying stress.<br /><br />I believe children need a supportive environment in order to express their masculine side. Assertiveness and aggression in children could easily trigger neurotic parents, resulting in punishment. As such, it may be safer for these children to suppress their masculinity. This, in my opinion, can cause homosexuality, which is really just a symptom of repression, resulting in neurosis. <br /><br />I contend that suppressed masculinity is the crux of the matter. When a person can safely explore their masculinity, I believe they will awaken that side of themselves that was never given permission to develop. As this exploration and identification deepens, I believe they will experience the lightness and joy that comes from resolving their repression.<br /><br />Ultimately, it’s an individual’s choice, whether or not to undertake steps to resolve their deepest neurotic issues and become their optimum selves.<br /><br />Again, the APA’s position on this issue is abhorrent. People should have the choice to explore their deepest issues and be supported to that end.ZWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00656703166266453926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-72597566578944106112012-03-10T19:07:48.819-08:002012-03-10T19:07:48.819-08:00Hello Mr. Janov,
It’s an honor to respond to you!...Hello Mr. Janov,<br /><br />It’s an honor to respond to you! My life changed after reading the Primal Scream some 20 years ago. Your work is truly inspirational.<br /><br />Actually, I was replying to the anonymous poster just above my post. For some reason I’m unable to use the reply function on this blog, so my post went as a general comment.ZWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00656703166266453926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-22901124847628750202012-03-10T14:51:57.921-08:002012-03-10T14:51:57.921-08:00ZW: You misread my views. look again. artZW: You misread my views. look again. artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-48867782884362640492012-03-09T19:58:09.797-08:002012-03-09T19:58:09.797-08:00Interesting…your experience seems to support the p...Interesting…your experience seems to support the position of “homosexuality” being a neurosis. However, your comment about bi-sexuality possibly being inherent in all of us seems to indicate that it may also be in-born. Do you believe that both possibilities can coexist?ZWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00656703166266453926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-39862990130817193332012-03-05T12:16:38.606-08:002012-03-05T12:16:38.606-08:00I didn't see any anecdotes here that related t...I didn't see any anecdotes here that related to symbolically needing affection from your Dad? As Art pointed out, trauma at birth and in the womb are 1st line representations of homosexual behavior. On the second line though it would? could? be a cold, distant homophobe of a father. Bi-sexuality may be inherent in all of us but repressing "gay" thoughts may bring on fear of "what if I am?"<br />I guess this is the latent homosexuality spoken of in psychiatric terminology. Having been straight all my life and lusting after women has made me feel that I am oriented as heterosexual. The scary "feeling" I suppress are symbolically related to "Dad. please love me, I need you." Perhaps early warmth from a female, my mother orients me mainly to wanting sex only with women? I actually don't have the scary "feelings" anymore as I resolve my need for my dad.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-38639083735791428302012-02-12T13:48:55.662-08:002012-02-12T13:48:55.662-08:00I agree that the APA’s position on homosexuality i...I agree that the APA’s position on homosexuality is misguided. That being said, I would hesitate to categorize all cases of homosexuality as neurosis, since the jury is still out on the science front. I would speculate though that the majority of cases would fall into the nurture category. <br /><br />My belief on causation:<br />Humans have a very long maturation period. Unlike lower animals that are ruled more by instinct, humans need role models to learn what they will need to succeed. I believe somewhere along the way humans became less hardwired in regards to gender orientation, which necessitated the need for role models. It might be that a child reared under ideal conditions, without good same sex role models could still become heterosexual, but “ideal conditions” is a rarity in my opinion. <br /><br />I think most cases of homosexuality are really gender role orientation issues. If you miss the opportunity to identify with your same sex you will become polarized in the opposite. This is the crux of the matter in my opinion. Sex is a play of opposites - masculine/feminine. If you’re polarized in the opposite your sexual attraction will be the same sex. There really is no “homo” per se when it comes to sex. <br /><br />I believe in order to change a homosexual orientation a person needs to find a way to identify with the same sex. PT may be helpful, but I doubt that it alone is the best way to help a person change their orientation. <br /><br />The other problem, especially in males, is that their frequent sexual impulses act like an electrical short when attempting to identify with their same sex and become hetero. Imagine trying to bond/identify with other males, but your sexual desires are still linked to same sex. This, it seems to me is a hurdle that needs to be overcome through repeated attempts to identify with the same sex. <br /><br />I believe with the right kind of support/therapy a person can change their orientation. I believe when a person can bond/identify with their own sex that this will bring about wholeness. <br /><br />The mainstream mental health system is impotent and inadequate. Talk therapy isn’t going to get the job done. There are no shortcuts or easy solutions to help people with neurosis. Band-aids don’t cure anything. We simply have to go deeper and deal with our feelings. Everyone here knows that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-80124294464032191552012-01-20T00:21:01.769-08:002012-01-20T00:21:01.769-08:00Richard: In the early days more than now we did se...Richard: In the early days more than now we did see primals reliving surgery. We had some controls back then and it appeared real to me. art just because is pain while you are unconscious does not mean it never happened and is not imprinted as a physiologic memory.Arthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-49294925971088230152012-01-20T00:10:47.393-08:002012-01-20T00:10:47.393-08:00Kaz: It is unfulfilled need turns into pain. We m...Kaz: It is unfulfilled need turns into pain. We must not only pain but precise need in order to be liberated. And never "why do you hate me?" that is a whole different level. but so far so good. thanks artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-10364907171160207982012-01-19T14:42:49.114-08:002012-01-19T14:42:49.114-08:00just a word of warning; your brain will record tra...just a word of warning; your brain will record traumatic information while you are unconscious under general anaesthetic. if you decide to have an operation, it will add more repressed pain to your system. a repressed memory will send out subliminal alarm signals for the rest of your life or until it is de-repressed (relived and resolved).<br />i went through a period of having nightmares in which i would feel awful grappling sensations in the right side of my groin and i would wake up, lying on my back, with a strong ache in that region. those experiences MIGHT be connected to an operation i had to correct my undescended right testicle when i was a child. just another primal waiting to happen.<br />i will never ask a surgeon to slice my semen ducts (aaaaagh!!) but having said that, sometimes an operation is the best solution (art's spine for example....ouch)<br /><br />as for the debate about wars, i think all people should do as much research as possible before deciding to support a war. propaganda is always biased.Richard Atkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13587935146938446604noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-58457154127306038002012-01-18T06:07:32.056-08:002012-01-18T06:07:32.056-08:00Hey Dr. Janov, speaking of your biography, always ...Hey Dr. Janov, speaking of your biography, always meant to ask:<br /><br />"It is not enough to feel the hurt, one must go further and feel the basic need. A patient who is able to feel about a parent in context: Why do you hate me so much? still has not reached the core need. Please love me. This is finally what healing is about. Without this step the distress and tears are neverending because the basic unmet need, the agonizing trauma that is the reason for repression in the first place remains intact." <br />-Why You Get Sick How You Get Well audiobook<br /><br /><br />We know the story of how you witnessed the scream that changed everything, and when/how exactly did you witness and discover this, that its reliving the need that cures? and that all the tears will be neverending until it happens.Kazhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00688350964818932862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-72741376579979638142012-01-17T14:43:08.917-08:002012-01-17T14:43:08.917-08:00Thanks for the heads-up Richard.... I tell people ...Thanks for the heads-up Richard.... I tell people to look for the old(er) guy with the white Afro...he's the real McCoy... Janov's PT, it is!Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15475038577503590631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-89588402457099906122012-01-17T13:34:24.274-08:002012-01-17T13:34:24.274-08:00Sieglinde: Now you can understand why we need to s...Sieglinde: Now you can understand why we need to stop (many) people from having children in the first place! It's the only realistic solution to stop the cycle of severe abuse.Andrew D Atkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04492591375757227409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-13240712832461211212012-01-17T12:52:15.627-08:002012-01-17T12:52:15.627-08:00Paul: I served there Aleutian chain and chased the...Paul: I served there Aleutian chain and chased the japanese back to their home. then was transferred to the south pacific and did five battles down there and then to Europe to get ready to cross the channel to capture the submarine based in Brest France, and on and on.Arthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-7800003676015593032012-01-16T17:11:19.898-08:002012-01-16T17:11:19.898-08:00Apollo: it is you who must come back to reality. P...Apollo: it is you who must come back to reality. Pacifists have good loving instincts, but will do nothing violent to defend others, and violence is sometimes needed. Just wars are the humane alternative to both pacifists and sadistic Nazi warmongers. Humane just warriors counter the psychopaths and the sadists and the fascists, and create a better world.<br /><br />MarcoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-14120217433575748932012-01-16T14:12:53.223-08:002012-01-16T14:12:53.223-08:00hi brian thanks for the link. just for the record...hi brian thanks for the link. just for the record, it's called "Janov's Primal Therapy"<br /><br />if you Google it you will end up at the official website. if you use the word "Janovian" Google will give you some cheap uninformative websites. some of those websites argue against JPT (like that?) but they don't provide the slightest shred of objective information. i think it's important to lead newcomers to the facts first so that they will be able to see the ignorance in the anti-primal arguments.Richard Atkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13587935146938446604noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-2530225341331710692012-01-16T13:16:27.978-08:002012-01-16T13:16:27.978-08:00Hi Art,
How is it you were in London as well as t...Hi Art,<br /><br />How is it you were in London as well as the Pacific in the 1940s'? This all gets too interesting, please tell us more. . . My Dad saw the horrors of a blown up Routemaster (double decker bus) as a schoolboy in London. He's about 3yrs younger than you.<br /><br />Paul GPaulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006514330039884557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-90323560862325466922012-01-16T06:11:19.188-08:002012-01-16T06:11:19.188-08:00Richard
"we need primal-educated people in ...Richard<br /> <br />"we need primal-educated people in government"<br /> <br />I agree. Now, how do we go about it?<br />Suggestion # 1: finding university (psychology)students in every city who would read <br />"Life Before Birth" to an mixed audience? <br /><br />The abusers would need "JPT" and primal education, but they are the ones who won't listen. <br /> <br />I know children are abused, but not all. <br />SieglindeS. W. Alexanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12087227301358286386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-89911900620201776392012-01-15T23:58:32.816-08:002012-01-15T23:58:32.816-08:00Hi Paul
Yes the UK is a really sick messed up Soc...Hi Paul<br /><br />Yes the UK is a really sick messed up Society. The stiff upper lip everyone is so proud of speaks volumes about the repression of feelings in this country. The mental health system in this country is also part of that control and abuse of people. I often think that there is little difference between Stalin sending politicial prisoners to mental hospitals and the uk's treatment of people with mental distress. Putting someone on pills is also a way of shutting someone up and not helping them deal with their trauma. Why should many physciatrists and physcologists help someone else when they have never dealt with their own childhood trauma. One well known writer and Physcologist Oliver James said on Radio 4 last year that he believed that only about 30% of the uk population were truly sane. So that's only 30% of the mental health profession truly sane in this country. <br /><br />And yes there was much support for Hitler in the UK. Some Farmers in East Anglia (in the flight path of German bombers on their way to bomb the major cities) used to plough huge arrows into the soil pointing the Bombers in the right direction.planespotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05315637682741508786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-23705537928902525032012-01-15T16:43:31.238-08:002012-01-15T16:43:31.238-08:00For Arthur,
Yes, a living F'ing hell and you ...For Arthur,<br /><br />Yes, a living F'ing hell and you have seen it far many more times than I have, in treating people. Your endorsement is much appreciated.apollohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02040184843184207525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-82400464105616628832012-01-15T14:12:40.802-08:002012-01-15T14:12:40.802-08:00Paul, thank-you for this observation of a British ...Paul, thank-you for this observation of a British version of child abuse that continues on, unabated... There is an American version too, quite as toxic but one that can be better explained by someone other than me... Psychohistory does something in this regard, shows how some of the world's children have been actively and purposefully abused through the ages... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychohistory. I am interested in Janovian PT because it aims to end the abuse of children beginning with the survivors we are...Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15475038577503590631noreply@blogger.com