There are those who think I have taken an anti homosexual stance. So let me clarify. I have no “stance” about homosexuality. I only try to follow the science and not shy away from facts that are politically incorrect. That helps no one, especially those who want to change.
Can we cure it? Wait! Is it an illness, a deviation that needs curing? If you ask anyone whose defenses work and have always worked they would say, “Why would I need curing? And since I am not in the priesthood (most of all being Jewish) I don’t have any desire to cure anyone of anything if they don’t want and need it. But I do want to help those who suffer. Some suffer from being gay and others are very comfortable with it. Why would I or anyone want to treat them? I have no mission and never have had a mission to save the world. I have found a way, to me the scientific way, to help those who hurt, who are anxious and depressed, who can’t function and who are miserable. We don’t advertise and make outrageous claims about homosexuality or anything else. We have “cured” some homosexuality. We didn’t start out to cure anything but two or three of them came to me after some time in therapy and said, “My orientation has changed.” I said fine. If it makes them happy so much the better.
What causes it? That is a sticky wicket. I have the feeling that with all the new research there is a hormonal base to some of it since traumas in the womb can and do change the later sex hormone levels. That is not all. There has to be a familial configuration that deprives the child of fulfillment of need, somehow, somewhere. I do think heterosexuality is normal, given the need for survival of the species, to say nothing of how the parts fit together to make babies. I really don’t care if homosexuals think they are normal. That is their choice. I do not agree or disagree. I try to follow my experience for over fifty years of therapy and of all the new research, including brain changes in homosexuals.
There seems to be general agreement in late research that traumas while in the womb can predispose to homosexuality. This is certainly true in animals where females show mounting behavior. Yes, there are many animals who show homosexuality. I am sure and do not dispute that. But I am an expert in humans, not homosexuality. I don’t know who is. I have no spin whatsoever about this anymore than I know that gestation and birth trauma lead to migraines later on. If a migraine lobby tells me I am dead wrong, I can only indicate my experience over many decades with it. And since we have cured many migrainers I will stick to my story. Incidentally, my new book (manuscript) cites many of the studies I mentioned above. Let’s get off the posturing. If I can help those with epilepsy, migraine and high blood pressure there must be something to the theory. I do not know of any other psychotherapy that helps epilepsy nor deep depression. That is because they cannot go deep enough to make profound changes. What this means is that the causes and origins of many afflictions lie very deep in the brain. Therefore all therapies that use words to help people are talking to the wrong brain.
About being prejudiced. Members of my staff have been gay. I engage those who are competent, period. When I am in doubt about something I check with my homosexual friends. When I want to know more about high blood pressure I check with my patients. I do not have to be the repository of all wisdom.
I think a lot of heterosexual people misinterpret the message that gays often display. Gays often say "accept us" but some heterosexuals interpret that message as "become one of us".
ReplyDeleteWhen people watch porn, they like to imagine being a part of what they are watching. During gay parades, many straight people feel like they are being invited to be a part of it. Indeed, they are being a part of it just by watching.
Finally, two gay people start kissing in a night club, and end up getting verbal abuse - or worse. Is it any surprise they (and gay-friendly people) are so sensitive to anything that seems anti-gay?
Also, sexuality is a very personal thing. Anything that triggers a deep physical feeling is automatically 'personal'. If a stranger was to reach out and touch your genitals, you are likely to think that he/she is being far too personal. Similarly, any criticism on your sexuality can be percieved as a personal violation, because the criticism is targeted at your private and deeply physical self.
I think there are many heterosexual people who have a perverted sexuality (I am one of them) and I think that gayness is also a perversion. I don't think a perversion is necessarily ugly or disgusting or sinful. It is just a symbolic way to get closer to feeling our real needs.
My matter-of-fact view:
ReplyDeleteI think what a lot of people don't like is the promotion of homosexuality as being a human normality as though it is as norml to be either gay or straight as it is to be born with either black or blond hair. That is a nonsense. Homosexuality is obviously an aberration - if it happens it's because nature or nurture isn't perfect, not because it is "meant to be". Homosexuality can hardly be considered an evolutionary adaptive mechanism (and no, we are not chimpanzees).
However, of course, no one chooses to be gay. We do not choose our genes nor our enirvornment of which we have developed in. And there is no moral foundation nor meaning for forcing a gay person to act as though they are heterosexual.
The fact that many people cannot accept homosexuals is strange. I would guess the inability to accept them probably has more to do with themselves on some level than with the gay people.
*None of what I have written is meant as a moralistic statement. It's just what I think.
I think Sartre held (as in most things) that our sexuality is choice. Others thinkers like WS Burroughs said that it is not a choice but rootedly biological. Is sexuality biologically determined? Well one can argue that because human beings are not all heterosexual it means that there is no innate human nature to which we can point as proof of any single biological essence. But as Dr Janov points out, male and female biological difference implies that there is a primary sexual and biological function to be served.
ReplyDeleteBut we all now know too our genes are expressed in the environment we find ourselves - womb and family being the formational contexts of personality. And we also know that the most essential characteristic behind the survival of any organism is its plasticity. (And by survival I mean individual survival for no reproduction is possible if individual survival is not secured - it is only when the organism is approaching the end of its life cycle that its profile may alter in this respect.)
Plasticity is a key concept I think and one that points to the fact that we are very malleable organisms and our genes can express themselves in very different ways depending on the circumstances we find ourselves in. This changeability is not of course an especially respected human quality ('2 faced', fair weather friend etc) and is seen as the expression of a lack of strength of character in maintaining our integrity in the face of social/environmental pressures. Is homosexuality one such pressure?
If so then it points to the spectrum of behaviour which humans adopt to adapt in order to survive e.g. an overly authoritarian father and unloving mother. But even if this is true it is equally the case that there is nothing pre-determined about human behaviour - there are just too many variables involved.
Certainly, from my own pov i find emotional attachment to men far easier to forge than to women - though ensuing from this I do not feel any sexual impulse towards people of my own gender (at least not that I am aware of).
I think we have to accept that human behaviour is part of a very wide spectrum pointing to the fact there are many possibilities for the expression of genes (e.g. science fact: here are almost one hundred genes alone for creating potassium channels in neural membranes) which means the human organism has many ways (strategies and options) to organise its biological functions depending on the huge range of environments (wombs, families, ecologies) it may find itself in.
Probably, more than any other organism, man's is the one whose genes can be expressed so dramatically across such a vast range of environments - ie there is no part of the world which we can't live in. (it is not a question of number of genes but the range of proteins they are capable of producing.) If there is a homosexual gene (and i don't know if they have found such a thing) then simply having it does not mean one becomes gay unless it is expressed ie. proteins are produced that lead to the the action potentials (or neuronal signals) that produce the hormonal changes that lead to gay behaviours.
The question is can behaviours be altered by putting the human organism in an environment in which genetic expression can alter? It would seem, from all Dr Janov has written, that Primal Therapy can affect such a change. Some people argue everything is simply a matter of conditioning or sensitisation. I think Primal therapy would take the view that there is a state of removed repression in which the organism can right itself - a basic condition of health rather than humanity which can take so many forms. Unfortunately, most of us are not healthy.
I have always thought that homosexuality serves an evolutionary purpose, of some sort, and suspect that it is associated with warfare. Societies in which there is endemic warfare usually have large, gay populations. This makes sense evolutionarily because it allows, hetrosexuals to be the primary care givers of children, and non child rearing members of society to be involved in fighting. Typically warrior societies, have men's fraternal organizations like men's houses, that may have the unintended consequence of concentrating male pheromes, it also may be true that the absence of male pherome exposure during gestation may effect the fetus later sexual orientation. Stephen Jay Gould pointed out in Ontogeny and Philogeny, that pherome exposure during periods of biological swarming, can delay mauturation, and cause juvenilles to develop profoundly different social interactions than typical adults. I don't think it's a coincidence that gay populations have increased in the US, as a result of our recent wars.
ReplyDeleteI am a student who is studying psychology at the moment. I think that Dr Janov's form of therapy, based on his clinical observations is finally being caught up with by science.
ReplyDeleteEssentially, the process of neurosis (though science talks about this in terms of habituation and sensitization) has been essentially unravelled in terms of pain withdrawl that points to brain plasticity - the re-routing of neural circuits to cope with/ adapt to environmental stimuli. (homosexuality might be one such aberrant form of bad wiring.)
They have done much work on basic life forms (slugs in particular which have only a few thousand neurons and these can be observed easily) to observe how, after electrical shocks are administered, neural circuits literally change their wiring to allow for an instant withdrawl effect (instant engagement of motor systems) if touched again, even though the subsequent stimuli carries no electrical charge. (The same things is true for the placebo effect of course where belief is enough to also create new neural circuits.)
By maitaining the sequence of shock followed by non-electrical stimulation of the same area the slug displays what scientists call long-term plasticity. In other words it 'remembers' to withdraw every time it is touched by an electrode (regardless of whether it carries a charge or not) for several days. This is referred to as habituation.
Dr Janov's genius is in creating a form of therapy that recognises pain withdrawl and the need to re-connect with that pain in order to produce re-wired or new neural circuits by which the re-sensitized patient is freed to make a new connection to his experience. In this way habituated (neurotic) behaviour is traced to its source - events in a patients history that have sensitized them away from healthy responses - with all the of the inhibition of genetic potential that goes with it and which has created life-long plasticity/ habituation.
It is just a shame Dr Janov doesn't get as much credit from the scientific community that he deserves. (Hopefully, I have not simplified primal therapy too much though I know someone will tell me if i have.)
Thanks Will. All the credit I need is from those who get help from my work. There is no point in waiting for intellectuals to appreciate a feeling therapy. My new book, Life Before Birth will clarify matters even more. art janov
ReplyDeleteI am looking forward to the new book; when is it coming out in the US?
ReplyDeleteThanks
Steven
Hi will,
ReplyDeleteJust to add to your post: I think what psychologists describe as habituation, with respect to the context that you presented, is really just emotionally-rigid associative learning. I question if those defensive responses are formed out of 'habit'.
The difference between habits and compulsions, by my outlook, is that compulsion is driven by something much more than just learned habit from repeated behaviour - it's driven by redirected/converted pain. And that's why supressing habits by force of will can't work if those habits are based on neurotic compulsion. The redirected pain signal will still be there. The compulsion will still vent itself some way or another.
Our brain is made up of zillions of assocative links. With neurosis we can't link new and more sophisticated responses to old imprints because the repressed state of those imprints makes new adaptive responses -on the primary level- pretty much impossible. Repressed dynamics literally have a mind of their own. Of coure PT is ultimately about reversing that situation via de-repression.
I hope that clarifying matters even more will do the trick, and that primal psychotherapy will become more available over a wider geographical area, with enough qualified practitioiners to meet demand. But I doubt that another book will have that effect, especially if it pushes the envelope even further toward early gestational experience, widening the gap even further between the latest science and what people can actually hear. I wish instead that the Primal Center would do more in the area of "baby steps". If a whole lot of people could feel okay about "crying about" the things in their life, and if they could find therapists who are able to listen to that (rare) without judging and interfering, then....then I don't know what, but that's what I wish for. A science that is truly, in a practical sense, for the people.
ReplyDeleteWalden
I think that the problent too is homosexual being so soon created normaly in uterus, could be in some cases imposible to cure. Because in primal therapy you know what work a posteriory but don't know what dosn`t.In the other side I can say that in Spain if you say homosexuals are sick you will be accuse no only from gay loobyst but by all society of being a radical.Remmenber that in Europe the dictators like Franco, Hitler and Mussolini think that gay was sick. So is very sensitive matter that can destroy a reputation.
ReplyDelete"In other words it (the slug) 'remembers' to withdraw every time it is touched by an electrode (regardless of whether it carries a charge or not) for several days. This is referred to as habituation."
ReplyDeletesorry, i got this wrong. Habituation is when the slug ceases to withdraw from an electrode because it has become used to it or calloused. However, if it reacts to the electrode this is called sensitization. Of course, something becomes habituated when it ceases to feel and becomes split from the original feeling.
Walden: hey I agree but it is my responsibility to push the science as far as I can because no one else is doing it. I have to leave it to others to write articles on the the therapy that has mass appeal. dr. janov
ReplyDeleteAndy: AMEN!
ReplyDeleteSteven I just finished it so now the real work begins. My agent has to sell it and then it needs to go through the process of making it a book. Nothing is guaranteed. Life Before Birth has already been bought by the French. If you read French you can probably get it in a few months. art janov
ReplyDeleteAndy wrote: "Homosexuality can hardly be considered an evolutionary adaptive mechanism (and no, we are not chimpanzees)."
ReplyDeleteI happen to disagree. Here is a good article on natural selection and homosexuality:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13674-evolution-myths-natural-selection-cannot-explain-homosexuality.html
I will quote from the article:
"It has also been suggested that homosexuality boosts individuals' reproductive success, albeit indirectly. For instance, same-sex partners might have a better chance of rising to the top of social hierarchies and getting access to the opposite sex. In some gull species, homosexual partnerships might be a response to a shortage of males - rather than have no offspring at all, some female pairs raise offspring together after mating with a male from a normal male-female pair.
Another possibility is that homosexuality evolves and persists because it benefits groups or relatives, rather than individuals. In bonobos, homosexual behaviour might have benefits at a group level by promoting social cohesion. One study in Samoa found gay men devote more time to their nieces and nephews, suggesting it might be an example of kin selection (promoting your own genes in the bodies of others)."
And as far as chimpanzees go... well, we are genetically almost identical to them, are we not?
Now, to the "moral" aspects of homosexuality. There really are none. It is not a "sin" (a word that does not belong to my vocabulary anyway). It hurts nobody - unless the person himself suffers from his homosexuality. Granted, some of that suffering may be caused by outside "heteronormative" pressure, but I do not believe that is behind all of the suffering.
I think Richard hit the nail on the head with his first post. There are many ways in which heterosexuals can be "perverted" too. If you are comfortable with your "perversion" (whether you're a homo-, bi- or heterosexual), then fine. If you are not, you might want/need help.
That's my two cents for now...
Dr Janov,
ReplyDeletece nouveau livre à paraître en français est une excellente nouvelle !
I wanted to write that everything you wrote speak for itself : your integrity and sense of rightness is obvious. Primal Therapy deals with deep emotional pains and feelings so obviously it rises a lot of objections and fears.
Your work needs honesty to be acknowledged (honesty with oneself and therefore with others).
follow the "science".....well,it seems to me that requires examination from all points of view to be genuine.....if non gay males are making assumptions based on thier experience,to me thats not very scientific
ReplyDeletelononeo: I don't think it matters gay or not gay in evaluating things. What matters is science and the scientific method. art janov
ReplyDeleteHi AnttiJ,
ReplyDeleteYes, we are almost genetically identical to chimpanzees, and most furry animals in fact. But a 1.5% difference can still be MASSIVE when it comes to the structure of a species sexuality, and many other fundamental features of course. Chimpanzees still look and act very, very different to us with only that 1.5% difference. So we can't claim that chimpanzees are an example of what humans are "inherently" meant to be/do. And that goes for other like-animal observations as well I believe.
Excuse me if I'm being a little crude, but if we had evolved as a homosexual species then the human anus would be as well equipped as the vagina to recieve penetration. It is not. It's much more delicate and therefore prone to damage, and there are also major infection risks associated with anal sex. Evolution seems to have decided that things aren't really supposed to go up there? But then, I suppose, female homosexual relationships are as physiologically sound as heterosexual relationships, I would guess. Maybe it's more "unnatural" for men to have homosexual relationships?
You also noted that gay people spend more time with their nephews and nieces. I spend a lot of time with my nephew and nieces when I visit them. That's only because I'm not attending to my own kids, because I don't have any yet. Same story for gay people? I wouldn't be surprised.
Why do males have nipples? Maybe it's because nature put a lot of effort into developing the genetic blueprint for female nipples, and saw some benefit (sensitivity??) to just leave the nipple blueprint in the male too - at no extra evolutionary cost.
ReplyDeleteThe blueprint is complete. Just tell a male to swallow a pill, and he will successfully grow full breasts with milk.
We can look at the difference between man and monkey....but what about the difference between man and woman. Is there much difference? Does it take a huge shift in hormonal balance to feminize a man's sexuality and vice versa? Maybe not.
We can observe female rats mounting male rats....but what about all the female rats that are just 'thinking about it'.
Hi folks. This reluctantly will have to be brief because I am not sure this message will be posted and I don't want to write for nothing. I don't know if this Google account thing is working.
ReplyDeleteAnyways...I'm new here and would first just like to express my greetings to you all( et bonjour aux francophones). And comment that whatever Dr Janov has written about homosexuality, indeed what he has written about anything, makes sense to me! More possibly later.. Marco...Montreal, Quebec
Gerald: Well that's a stretch! Are there really more guys or just awareness? arthur Janov
ReplyDeleteI'm 76, married for 20 years, bi-sexual for 14 years, gay for 18 years. Have just retrieved my copy of The Primal Scream and re-read chapters relevant to my experiencing a Primal Scream, when relating my childhood experiences to an older, father-figure lover - this during my bi-sexual period. There's no doubt in my mind that this had a liberating effect on my neuroses and has enabled me to lead a more comfortable and creative life. But it didn't change my sexual orientation(s).
ReplyDeleteAnonymous: Which is what? AJ.
ReplyDeleteDr Janov,can you tell me is homosexuality deviant or not?Is not normal or not?Thanks in advance.
ReplyDeleteListen. I write books so you all will understand. It is explained in my Life Before Birth most recent book. art
ReplyDelete