tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post8288636536369273564..comments2024-02-11T18:16:53.445-08:00Comments on Janov's Reflections on the Human Condition: The Simple Truth is Revolutionary: Making a Nightmare into a NightmareArthur Janovhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16709863014923629409noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-72544958144063422992010-08-31T07:22:09.540-07:002010-08-31T07:22:09.540-07:00Dear Art,
I must confess: I skipped «Primal Healin...Dear Art,<br />I must confess: I skipped «Primal Healing». But I have read: «Le Cri Primal», «Biology of love», “The Primal Revolution», «Primal Man» and «Le corps se souvient» (I may be missing one or two). I also had Primal Therapy at the Primal Institute in New York, beginning in April 1979. I’m using the primal technique when needed ever since. Of the several hundred primals I had, many were dreams related. I had primals in session where a «troubling» dream was the main trigger. I did primal at night after being awakened by a dream. I sometimes started primalling in my sleep because I had realized I was dreaming and was able to started expressing the feeling related to the dream, and continue the primal once awake. I even had complete primals while sleeping without waking up. I know it because in a few cases, later on in the day, something happened that made me remember of the dream and the primal I had. So, with all due respect, I don’t think I need to read your two books «…to understand more about this …». I do agree that the feeling is everything and that the brain will use anything, object or person, to build up a scene in which the feeling will be felt.<br /><br />Now, I would like to come back to your reply to my first comment: «It is rearranging the furniture on the Titanic again. art janov You cannot manipulate the brain into sanity.»<br /><br />May I suggest that you read again carefully my comment? In the technique I was describing, the suggestion was that the dreamer would «confront» her monster instead of just running away. I was saying it was similar to Primal; you called that: «… manipulate the brain…»<br /><br />Notice this is very different than making believe that the «monster» is in fact «a friend» or some other form of denial. The lady, in confronting her monster will need to express her feelings, hereby increasing the likelihood of a connection. The connection is even more probable that it is being done in a sleeping state, when some cognitive defenses are lowered. <br /><br />I think a similar process would be done using the primal technique, would it not? Relax, describe the scene in the dream, get back there as much as possible, let yourself go back into the feeling, etc. Whatever the precise style of primalling is, at one point, to «… get back to the FEELING of the dream…», the patient will need to «… TALK TO THE MONSTER!… or DO TO THE MONSTER WHATEVER YOU WANT TO DO!» <br /><br />Then please explain: why expressing feelings while sleeping is «brain manipulation» and doing it in a primal session is not? <br /><br />Charles-Gilles MasséCharles-Gilles Masséhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13270363861311647481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-75350237640354320092010-08-30T15:17:33.873-07:002010-08-30T15:17:33.873-07:00Charles-Gilles: First, read Primal Healing and The...Charles-Gilles: First, read Primal Healing and The Biology of Love by me to understand more about this. Nightmares are the psychotic episodes while we sleep. Bad dreams are the neurotic style and represent neurosis while sleeping. We always use the symbols to get the patient back into the FEELING of the dream because that is the real feeling inside the symbols and will lead the patient to his or her imprint. The symbols have no other importance and do not need to be analyzed forever. That is tantamount to psychoanalysis, talking feelings and their symbols to death. Feeling is what it is about. art janovArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-40271885471830194452010-08-30T08:29:59.716-07:002010-08-30T08:29:59.716-07:00The lady could express her feelings to the monster...The lady could express her feelings to the monster while in her dream, which is closer to her reality and seem to got her closer to the source of her fear.<br /><br />May I ask how you are dealing with these kind of recurrent nightmares in Primal Therapy?Charles-Gilles Masséhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13270363861311647481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-83006644627161561972010-08-30T01:01:29.508-07:002010-08-30T01:01:29.508-07:00Charles-Gilles: It is rearranging the furniture on...Charles-Gilles: It is rearranging the furniture on the Titanic again. art janov You cannot manipulate the brain into sanity.Arthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-53331834011182957532010-08-28T16:03:12.897-07:002010-08-28T16:03:12.897-07:00This «dream mastery» technique certainly sounds li...This «dream mastery» technique certainly sounds like more repression and further away from the reality. It is shame, especially since better techniques, even outside of Primal Therapy approach, has been in existence for many years. I have read an article about «dreams taming», many years ago. Instead of «programming» the brain to change the dream in a more pleasant one, they were programming it to «fight» whatever frightening situation in these recurring dreams. That one lady was describing how she could successfully confront the monster who was always coming back into her nightmares. Instead of running, she turned around and started telling the monster to stop frightening her. Apparently, the big monster deflated to a point where the lady could recognized the shadow of her own mother in the door of the bedroom, when she was a child. As a result, this recurring nightmare never came back. Sounds to me like having some sort of primal in our sleep and getting some positive result from it. <br /><br />Charles-Gilles MasséCharles-Gilles Masséhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13270363861311647481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-89356228710568031482010-08-10T14:45:46.771-07:002010-08-10T14:45:46.771-07:00Dr Janov writes: "Jesus! Wake up!" Manki...Dr Janov writes: "Jesus! Wake up!" Mankind is just waking up on all fronts very very slowly (environmental, human rights, psychological, etc..).I find this all hard to stomach, living amongst human beings where so many are still so unconscious , right up to utter fascist cruelty.Yesterday, I was flipping through a new book about Monsanto, a massive multi-national involved in the food trade.I mean, they and most farmers are just raping the earth. And they feel nothing about it.Obviously ,all farming should be organic, the health of the topsoil should be maintained , animals should not be raised with cruelty in farm factories , etc.. But the powers-that-be don't get this! Jesus! wake up! But they generally are not (yet?) waking up. I find this hard to take, living in a world so demented and ignorant.<br /><br />Marcomacor22https://www.blogger.com/profile/00652948318839690382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-908054763784063782010-08-10T13:58:07.296-07:002010-08-10T13:58:07.296-07:00Andrew, I asked my cognitive therapist that exact ...Andrew, I asked my cognitive therapist that exact question. He told me the cognitive therapy, in my case, was just "a few tricks to help me cope" because that is all I asked for. He said the behavioural therapy (exposure to the things I avoid) is where "more substantial changes can be made". He also told me that finding the source of the pain is like peeling back the layers of an onion. He said we reach a point where it becomes impossible to understand ultimate causes, and that it wasn't actually necessary to reach that level of understanding.<br />He was never able to give me a proper answer to any of my very clear and specific questions. I liked him but he didn't know what he was talking about. He knew how to ask me many questions, ask me to fill out forms, ask me to choose a place to sit, prompt me to give a reaction to this and that....the techniques might seem impressive to someone who has never read anything about primal theory. But there were no answers to my questions.Richard Atkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13587935146938446604noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-84498705951256655482010-08-10T13:35:09.983-07:002010-08-10T13:35:09.983-07:00The discovery of Primal Pain was, IMO, the greates...The discovery of Primal Pain was, IMO, the greatest discovery mankind ever made: reason--we now know enough about ourselves to change everything. The ensuing formulation of Primal Theory is the only psychological theory since Freud and until and unless it is acknowledged most psychological experiments are an effort in futility. The reason, IMO, that a non-feeling (neurotic) medical, psychological and sociological professions attack Primal Therapy and it's efficacy in order to circumvent looking at Primal Theory. History (if we are to have one) will, IMO, view these professions in the same light as the Papacy (the ruling authority of their time) when looking at the Copernicus/Galileo theory of the heavens. The world is a changing--rapidly and many are proposing righting the wrongs. Most of us are scared of the consequences, but putting a positive spin on it, never did,or ever will, change reality. The only 'reality' (for each of us), IMO, is what we "feel". Attempting to 'think-out' reality will leave us with six billion answers.Jack Waddingtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06427501529242639591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-21160714390331961262010-08-10T08:40:06.360-07:002010-08-10T08:40:06.360-07:00Yann: You know, when doctors cannot themselves fee...Yann: You know, when doctors cannot themselves feel they adopt a therapy that amounts to the same thing. ajArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-33121837966157740512010-08-09T14:44:11.061-07:002010-08-09T14:44:11.061-07:00It sounds a bit like dealing with bridge builders ...It sounds a bit like dealing with bridge builders who refuse to believe that Force = mass x acceleration. We already know that dreams are the end-point rationalisation for lower-level feelings of which originate in the lower brains. Trying to change the dream (at the end-point level) is the same as trying distract yourself from the feeling - and, of course that's what cognitive therapy is about.<br /><br />Do cognitive therapists tell their patients that they are resolving their feelings when they "think forced happy thoughts", or do they tell them they are only successfully [maybe?] blocking their pain? Maybe change can begin with honest representation.Andrew D Atkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04492591375757227409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-90733413170705991932010-08-09T12:56:23.841-07:002010-08-09T12:56:23.841-07:00Doctor Janov,
I like the english word "contr...Doctor Janov,<br /><br />I like the english word "control freak" because it describes so well what this kind of psychlogist is trying to do to his patients. Let's think about a doctor saying to his patient after discovering he has cancer that he can cure heart attacks and he wants his patient to believe that he is bound to have a stroke. It sounds a bit like in a Molière play...It could be funny if it wasn't real.Yannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806913165189012161noreply@blogger.com