tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post5211417095123673338..comments2024-02-11T18:16:53.445-08:00Comments on Janov's Reflections on the Human Condition: The Simple Truth is Revolutionary: EMDR (Part 1/4)Arthur Janovhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16709863014923629409noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-88631388249843536272011-04-22T07:57:33.337-07:002011-04-22T07:57:33.337-07:00Andrew: YEP. AJAndrew: YEP. AJArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-88724608671387417222011-04-09T00:29:28.099-07:002011-04-09T00:29:28.099-07:00stop bashing on Art you lot, that's my job. An...stop bashing on Art you lot, that's my job. And if I'm half as alive as he is when his age I won't care what us little shits say, either.<br /><br />a simple Google search on Grosso Modo: ""in a rough way" or "in the rough way". I like it when I learn new things...<br /><br />Erronraindoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09714998714610881831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-36166381385408383402011-04-08T22:46:41.860-07:002011-04-08T22:46:41.860-07:00Richard, that post was not aimed at ARthur at all....Richard, that post was not aimed at ARthur at all. It was aimed at someone who criticized Arthur and I pondered what EMDR might really be up to. Yeah, I speak a little cryptically at times. One of my habits. Its all right if you do not like it or do not understand it. I don't require either from you or anyone else. No one has to read it. I speak and let the buyer beware!apollohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02040184843184207525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-48314022565729830912011-04-08T04:05:56.997-07:002011-04-08T04:05:56.997-07:00RIchard: wow you are not obligated to read it. ...RIchard: wow you are not obligated to read it. maybe it is boring. art janovArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-50731203173676462502011-04-07T04:54:12.380-07:002011-04-07T04:54:12.380-07:00Apollo i have no desire to bash an old man who suf...Apollo i have no desire to bash an old man who suffers from a constant sore throat and tries endlessly to explain things to people like you and me. I've read Primal Healing. Still don't get the above article. I doubt any of the blog readers can understand it. If anyone can explain, i would be grateful and amazed. i don't care anymore. for me personally, some things are best explained in a conversation. and Art has no voice so that's that.Richard Atkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13587935146938446604noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-74526738347647224242011-04-05T23:41:16.071-07:002011-04-05T23:41:16.071-07:00Well, some critics will point out how we might str...Well, some critics will point out how we might struggle in our attempts to describe or understand something. Sometimes what I say does not come out quite right. With time, I pick up on my contradictions or poorly used words and fine tune my ideas. Should this be used against me to discredit what I do? Theories and ideas always need continual polishing and even some modification. That is no reason to bash the theory or those who attempt to explain it.<br /><br />And I am all in favor of intellectual masturbation, or any other type, too. What’s wrong with it, anyway? ;-)<br /><br />Now on EMDR, I often wonder about various researchers. Some like to exploit previous ideas as being their own discoveries. Others might want to help the ideas along so they join in, perhaps rewording it slightly or somewhat in order to add another witness to the theory or idea. But I am amazed that a number of things have been discovered which seem to touch on PT yet never know anything about PT. Is PT that rare in publicity? I guess it is.<br /><br />Consider New German Medicine, Attachment Parenting, and many other recent trends. All seem to tip their hat (probably unknowingly or deliberately conceal any relationship to PT) to PT with their promotions.<br /><br />But I also know this. Every truly good movement will cause an Orthodoxy to seek it out and infiltrate it or compete with it, and yet take it off in a slightly different direction at first and then slowly draw it further off and away from the original. They will also try to discredit it and slander it, making mountains out of molehills and molehills into mountains. Being a bit paranoid, I always look for Primal Debunkers, figuring they are just another attempt at distorting or corrupting something they fear. It is always amusing.<br /><br />For the record, Sophists were a group who basically argued that arguing what was correct or lawful was not as important as being more convincing or persuasive. We have all seen those who are not good at defending what they think or believe. It does not mean they are right or wrong. But some can make any nonsense sound good to those who are not that bright. These are sophists. They prey on ignorance because those who really know their stuff cannot be fooled by sophistry or sophists. Lies have no real power over truth.<br /><br />PT has quantifiable concrete evidence for its operation and resolution. It can be measured, and repeated and has been many times. So much and so many times, that Arthur would not be obligated to continue to do so. You can take it or leave it. But he keeps on and some of us are grateful for that. We all seek to see it further refined and defined. I also seek to see it integrated with a greater philosophy or long term view of human progress.<br /><br />I don’t fear or object to other competing ideas such as EMDR. I don’t fear any ideas. I can handle whatever comes my way. Let it come. Glad to see it discussed and dissected.apollohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02040184843184207525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-6082283905928759872011-04-04T05:54:59.327-07:002011-04-04T05:54:59.327-07:00Andrew: So sorry about Grosso Modo. I live in eur...Andrew: So sorry about Grosso Modo. I live in europe off and on for 30 years and it was de rigueur there. artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-35636752065901065382011-04-02T06:48:32.733-07:002011-04-02T06:48:32.733-07:00Hi,
The article makes sense to me, particularly o...Hi,<br /><br />The article makes sense to me, particularly of the experiences I am having. In combination with the testaments of other posters I find the "gist" of Arts' writing more than adequate.<br /><br />There are many claimants for balancing the brain, this is not a new idea. What seems to be Arts point is that it is necessary to relive trauma. Somewhere else Art has already said there's a stage one can get to in therapy where the symptoms disappear but the underlying problem has not. I suspect those researchers who do not believe re-living is necessary are fudging the issue precisely at this point or stage of therapy; Art?<br />It's good that Art continues to collect and disseminate supporting research because we need the facts, as they are published.<br /><br />By the way (Apollo will like this), the Sophists were an ancient Greek political sect who became infamous for their "sophistry", since then the word has become bastardised to mean its' opposite. Wicked, innit?!<br /><br />Paul G.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006514330039884557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-53165138898453059092011-04-02T02:36:18.553-07:002011-04-02T02:36:18.553-07:00Art:
In response to your recent emailed comment:
...Art:<br /><br />In response to your recent emailed comment:<br /><br />I personally (speaking for no one but myself) think the purpose of this blog is: <br />1. Promote primal therapy (fair enough? Of course).<br />2. Express how the world works from the 'primal' perspective - that is, demonstrate the pervasive impact of blocked pain - its impact is in fact everywhere. <br />3. Give outsiders the opportunity to contribute. <br />4. Intellectual masturbation (if it feels good).<br /><br />By the way: Grosso modo = "in the rough way". I actually had to look that up.Andrew D Atkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04492591375757227409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-18200908019136629662011-04-01T14:44:10.668-07:002011-04-01T14:44:10.668-07:00(continued..)
" At first it sounds inpressive...(continued..)<br /><i>" At first it sounds inpressive..but upon serious inquiry it dosn't persuade. Sounds like a vain attempt to "prove" or 'justify" that what dosn't require justification. Most of your interpertations of the data are but one interpertation. There are several explanations. Talk about people having to follow up assertions with reasons... (former blog ). Art..Art... Also, having ratings of improvement as accessed by the administering therapists is laughable. Wasn't it you who once spoke of "vested interests?" Sure was. Or how about self-fulfilling prophecies. To me this blog is superfluous. aaaaaaaannnndddddddd therrrrrrrrre's Art. Try it again. Barry P.S....and talk about people who lean on words...the pseudo "left brain" intellectual...or is it "right brain" intellectual?...or the hung-up neurotic...who cares? What is the basis for your focused attention on this pap? People use jargon and are pedantic when they are insecure and yearn for acceptance... What is this bit about "grosso modo?" Yea..like you're really attempting to communicate...EVERYBODY knows what grosso modo means. I'm surprised you're not writing in Latin. This entire blog can be reduced to "Look mommy I'm a good boy" and "Look how sophisticated I am." Which you're not. By the way..I wrote an e-mail to you thanking you for a lot of things...but couldn't bring myself to actually send it. Oh well. If you're going to write for gods sake write better. Please. !!!"</i>Arthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-81894384329522347472011-04-01T14:43:31.342-07:002011-04-01T14:43:31.342-07:00Another email comment:
"
Art...I'll go t...Another email comment: <br /><i>"<br />Art...I'll go through it point by point as I read it. Might make the communication a bit easier. (1) Initially we are in a state of stasis "emotionally" {actually...our "feeling".i.e. the general sensation of the body} That state then becomes "arousal"..or "excited"..take your pick.. and then that is delineated into two states...delight and distress. From distress we can eventually get to anxiety...which is non-focused fear..fear being a primary feeling. Now I'll read some more. (2)Trauma does not have to be induced in a high state of arousal. A high state of arousal may be a consequence of trauma...which would be the individuals response to the disorientating import of the trauma. Trauma occurs when our psychological "map" of associated a-priori meaning and perceptual processes of integrating reality is shattered...i.e. the schema is disassembled..so to speak. [aside....reminds me of the situation where that which is learned in a drug induced state...any psychogenic drug..can only be recalled once that drug is operant again. Is this actually true? Can't say for sure.] Onward. (3) The use of the word "power" annoys me. Very vague. Perhaps "Amplitude" or "Activation"...check your biological thesaurus. [never mind...there's the use of "Activation."] (4) Didn't realize the "mind" was a temporal entity that could be divided into right and left. Ummmm..did you ever actually see or weigh a mind? Com'on. (5) limbic unconscious "stimulation"..not forces. Jeeze. (6) Isn't "unconscious" used as a buzz word here...we as creatures are not conscious of 99% of the brains processing activity. I believe we are only aware of the result of processing 2000 bits of information per second...while somewhere in the area of a billion bits are registered. It could be more..I forget. (6) I was just using "veracity" the other day..and had to look it up. Used it the same way you did. You ought to look it up again. But my point of item 6 is that the entire paradigm of right brain/left brain is rather new and without sound substantiation. It's actually more pop-psych than not..and to build an edifice on it is to build on sand. It is good for a metaphore..but not sound science. All and all I don't see the point of this blog other than as an exercise in mental masterbation. Maybe I'm wrong. WHAT'S THE POINT OF THIS BLOG??? I still have Holdens work.,and it rings of the same specious vernacular. "</i>Arthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-43137881481544505032011-04-01T14:37:56.994-07:002011-04-01T14:37:56.994-07:00Richard: You can feel free to criticize all you li...Richard: You can feel free to criticize all you like. It is how I learn. Read Biology of Love and Primal Healing thoroughly; the answers are in there. Read my discussion about Eric Hoffman's research. We do equalize the brain. AJArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-63267687416618417082011-04-01T14:35:31.254-07:002011-04-01T14:35:31.254-07:00An email comment:
"> "Rite! The right...An email comment:<br /><i>"> "Rite! The right orbitofrontal lobe is a dredge for the limbic system pressures aka unintegrated feelings. Integration is when they finally switch through 'ethernet' on the other side thus the "resolution".<br /><br />There is something about balancing the brain (either through feeling one's feelings or artificially induced) .. something about bringing these two sides to work in concert, harmony and balance that causes unresolved feelings to become integrated once and for all.<br /><br /> I won't discuss EMDR too much, I don't know "too much" about it. It would be interesting to see EFT -tapping scam exposed ;-)""</i>Arthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-68659581595808066022011-03-31T15:04:40.345-07:002011-03-31T15:04:40.345-07:00Art, this article was not very clear to me.
You m...Art, this article was not very clear to me.<br /><br />You make it sound like most of your patients begin as right-brainers. You say: during therapy there are initial temporary boosts in the right, and then the later long term results show increased activity in the left. This implies that the patient ends up with LESS activity in the right (apart from the temporary boosts) compared to pre-therapy observations. If the patient began as a right-brainer, that would explain your conclusion; a more even distribution between left and right.<br /><br />Or perhaps you are saying there is an initial rapid increase in right brain activity, which is sustained over the long term, while the left brain takes more time to increase. The end result is an increase in BOTH hemispheres??<br /><br />Another unclear point:<br />"It is accompanied by a later developed, articulated feeling of hopelessness. In these cases the vital signs drop significantly. One can feel hopeless long before one has the cortical wherewithal to articulate it."<br /><br />The timing and context seems to shift back and forth, as you often do in your writing.<br /><br />I guess you are saying the feeling originates as a brain stem sense of hopelessness, which, later in the session, can develop into a limbic (and therefore articulated) sense of hopelessness?<br /><br />Can you see why I always get confused? You tend to mix the timing of events that occurred in evolution, with the timing of events that occurred in a single primal session, with the timing of events that occurred over the long term as recorded in your studies. aaaagh. Which times are you talking about?<br /><br />"It is accompanied by a later developed..."<br /><br />Those are words without context. Forgive me for being so intellectual. <br /><br />I've only got through half of Primal Healing. I haven't been able to settle into it. Everything in that book has made perfect sense to me so far, so I'll read the rest of it in case it's explained better in there. <br /><br />I'm not criticizing. I'm just showing you the trouble I'm having....maybe I need to develop a more powerful intellect :DRichard Atkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13587935146938446604noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-67429248455155529782011-03-31T12:10:59.891-07:002011-03-31T12:10:59.891-07:00Quote: "If upshooting Primal Pain interferes ...Quote: "If upshooting Primal Pain interferes with left hemisphere functioning we may expect mental disturbance of a psychotic dimension accompanied by larger amplitudes on the left side." <br /><br />So for the psychotic, not only do they 'dream' an imprinted history dialogue, they cannot see the dream for what it is and therefore actually believe it is real because their left brain, which would otherwise make the higher-level deduction, can't work properly either? Would you say that's right, Art?Andrew D Atkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04492591375757227409noreply@blogger.com