tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post4688852288028205501..comments2024-02-11T18:16:53.445-08:00Comments on Janov's Reflections on the Human Condition: The Simple Truth is Revolutionary: So Who Needs More Love?Arthur Janovhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16709863014923629409noreply@blogger.comBlogger78125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-39778280505697921102012-02-12T01:20:35.372-08:002012-02-12T01:20:35.372-08:00Hi Richard,
Some days I am overwhelmed with first...Hi Richard,<br /><br />Some days I am overwhelmed with first line 'crushing' despair and my physical symptoms leave me 'unemployable' for hours or days after. I can barely make it into my car before the 2nd line resonance starts (sometimes very intense 'murderous rage').<br /><br />I do know what you mean. I get coughing fits, the shits and very intense dissociation. I get a whole load of other symptoms too which are just too personal to reveal here. <br /><br />Like planespotter, I am extremely fortunate I have a self employed occupation that (to an extent) allows me the freedom to collapse as it happens but I also know what it's like to be in a totally inappropriate situation. . . My profession, carpentry still doesn't pay the bills yet and I'm going into debt (it's still a construction recession); but it sure does offer the 'super intellectualism' I need to stave off the worst of these 'bouts' of mine. Having a trade that involves design as well as fabrication offers some satisfaction and sense of fulfilment due to having exercised very many different parts of the brain as each project progresses. <br /><br />I recommend self employment and the traditional trades and crafts as a serious palliative for Primal people. In my "Island" community of 60 families we would all be helping the 100 or so children learn as many of them from as soon as they want to pick up the tools.<br /><br />Paul G.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006514330039884557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-23248722879120511082012-02-10T16:08:01.349-08:002012-02-10T16:08:01.349-08:00Planespotter said >> I worry that suggesting...Planespotter said >> I worry that suggesting genes are to blame is just the same as saying Drives are. It’s a way of avoiding dealing with the brutal truth of child rearing in our society.<br /><br />Me >> Ah, the blame game. Everyone loves something or someone to blame, only as long as it is not themselves. Some even blame past primal injuries and subsequent pain for all their present suffering, as if they were doing nothing wrong in the present at all. Innocent as doves, you know. So the pain they feel is assumed to be all past pain. This relives them of looking at themselves in the present and finding cause for legitimate guilt in the present.<br /><br />I am in no way pointing at you, Planespotter. But making the point that even legitimate primal pain can be used as an excuse to ignore what we do to aggravate situations that set off and make our present situations worse and bring up the old pain with it. If we fixed the present, at least we would not be touching off the past as much and causing that great pain of the past to haunt us again.<br /><br />Too often, I think personal examination is avoided because we all seek to protect our delicate and often vain and inflated egos. It is bad enough that we suffered in the past and have it buried in side us. But to add to it by making our lives more difficult without good reason, just makes no sense.<br /><br />I still say the biggest problem of those who suffer from primal pain and know about primal pain is that they do not want to face themselves and fault themselves and then change their actions to be less detrimental. Oh, but I’m just being “cognitive.” It’s a great cop out. Some people make excuses while others make changes. It really is that simple.apollohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02040184843184207525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-24310579204661046642012-02-10T14:17:21.189-08:002012-02-10T14:17:21.189-08:00Hi planespotter,
-"I get your point about ir...Hi planespotter,<br /><br />-"I get your point about irony. It's still not honest is it"-?<br /><br />I feel children should not be exposed to Irony because they could not understand it. Once the repression in us has become concreted that's another matter. . . Well, the thing about conflict amongst adults is that the point of it must be hard. This is not semantics. We become hardened and this shows in relationships. Irony is a third line skill. Like Zeroxat, LSD, Cannanbis or any other drug that adults take to ameliorate their "hardened" condition the conflicts and the contradictions still exist. . .<br /><br />As adults, as third liners, needing to cope, we need this "Sophistication". We need to be able to express our conflicts through a dichotomy, a parallax, a paradox.<br /><br />Conflicts happen.<br /><br />My Dad uses conflicts to put minions down. Parents can be so very exploitative this way as to prevent their offspring ever consolidating adult friendships in their offspring. Thus their children become isolated and intellectualised as a way to maintain the possibility, the (false) hope in their offspring. This way us "Sons" become slaves to our fathers' repression. I feel and intuit epigenetics demonstrates, shows the truth of this.<br /><br />Irony is a "Lay" expression of the scientific facts. <br /><br />Paul G.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006514330039884557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-43512336591116735932012-02-10T13:43:51.533-08:002012-02-10T13:43:51.533-08:00Hi Richard & Art,
-"most people's ad...Hi Richard & Art,<br /><br />-"most people's adult lives are not that bad. it is a feeling from the past. without a reality-based intellect, suicidal people may see death as the only real option. there are times when breaking down is not the right thing to do. it's important to remember where that feeling is coming from (the past) and to look forward, when you can, and find the little things that provide some kind of real or neurotic reward".<br /><br />Words fail me. But they don't fail you Richard. Often what you say here on this site has tipped the edge of my particular despair back to life. It's too personal for me to say here on this blog, maybe I havn't found the right words yet, but I sure know the feelings. Rest assured that this 'old intellect' has and continues to know the feelings. You are a good writer Richard, maybe one day we'll meet. Take care of yourself and please carry on writing.<br /><br />Regards, Paul G.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006514330039884557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-3091210397010083512012-02-09T06:19:17.778-08:002012-02-09T06:19:17.778-08:00Sieglinde I agree that it is too painful for peopl...Sieglinde I agree that it is too painful for people to see but am still not convinced that genes are to blame. Happy to be convinced otherwise.<br /><br />Alice Miller gives a great explanation in "For Your Own Good" about the reasons why her countrymen were able to kill so many. She suggests that child rearing books at the turn of the 19 Century centered around really horrific and brutal means of control. So the people who entered the war in 1939 were the major part of the people who tortured and killed the millions who died then. Children were wrapped in cloth and hung on hooks in the house and called things like "Shit Eaters". These people had no empathy shown to them early in life so why should they have any empathy for others later in life. <br /><br />How much further is it from being into S and M and sexually dealing out pain and suffering to another person and both parties saying they enjoy it, to someone torturing and killing someone and laughing on a pile of heads. Not far I would have thought. <br /><br />People have always looked for reasons why they are the way they are. Medieval scholars blamed the Devil for mental illness. The Victorians thought it was humors drifting through the air. Freud thought it was Drives. As science "progressed" it thought it was instinct and over the last 20 years it's been genes. <br /><br />Recently an amateur English astronomer discovered a new habitable planet. He found it not by seeing the planet but by seeing that the Star it went round got slightly dimmer when the planet passed in front of it.<br /><br />In the same way I would argue that for many of us before we see what is right in front of us( a brutal and unloving Parents) learnt not to see as it is less painful. We have to develop new ways of seeing. My Aunt is not her Father's daughter. She says she has only just discovered in her early sixties that her Mother had an affair with a Polish Jewish airman during the war. If she is right and she did not know why do all four of her children (born in the 60's and 70's have classic jewish biblical names?<br /><br />I have found that if I mention people like Freud on this blog my piece does not often appear. I don't support his drives at all. I think the difference between say Dr Janov and Alice Miller who both seem to look at the real truth, people like Freud stopped looking for the real truth (though he got near to it with his Trauma theory) because it was too painful. Jung couched everything in booga booga as Dr Janov calls it. R D Laing who is feted in the UK as one of the great radicals of physcology and physciatry tried to see the truth but in the end could not. He got near but again avoided the pain probably because he had no-one who could support him in his journey of self discovery. As the most radical explorer who could he turn too.<br /><br />I think that many researchers cannot see because they learned not to see as children. They learned to see lies as the truth. Also when one starts to unravel one's own internal knots one unsettles others around one. This is Miller's theory as to why Freud developed his Drive theories. He was a lone explorer with no-one else to really support him and middle class victorian society was happily lying to itself about the abuse going on and so he found himself ostracised for suggesting that it was abuse and trauma that caused peoples problems. Dr Janov talks about the imprint or primal scene that drives a person to all kinds of obsessions and rightly holds the parent responsible for that pain (whether they are aware of it or not). Freud blamed the victim i.e. the child and described inherited drives as the reason for the person's problems. That is why Freud still holds sway sadly I would argue and why many researchers cannot start to see the real truth of abuse and trauma.<br /><br />I worry that suggesting genes are to blame is just the same as saying Drives are. It’s a way of avoiding dealing with the brutal truth of child rearing in our society.planespotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05315637682741508786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-52815238435760387202012-02-08T09:39:06.637-08:002012-02-08T09:39:06.637-08:00I get your point about irony. It's still not h...I get your point about irony. It's still not honest is it? I feel it's still the avoidance of actual honesty. Is'nt PT about real honesty. The other people in the tribe saying "Go on hit her etc" to the husband are avoiding the fact that the argument has got as far as it can and ended with threatening with sticks etc and where did that come from. As a species we learned to speak to try to help our communications beyond facial expressions, body language etc and probably due to the larger numbers we mix with I suppose. If we can't express feelings to the closest person to us and them have empathy for us even when we are saying difficult things for the other person to hear then language etc is not working which quite obviously is the case in the tribe and therefore feelings are not understood either so something must be wrong.planespotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05315637682741508786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-73916092051141863072012-02-08T04:48:15.753-08:002012-02-08T04:48:15.753-08:00Richard:
I couldn't say it better myself. art...Richard:<br />I couldn't say it better myself. artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-27287110504085125052012-02-07T16:59:30.847-08:002012-02-07T16:59:30.847-08:00paul, it's impossible to cry when you are over...paul, it's impossible to cry when you are overwhelmed by a first-line feeling. each rush of hopelessness hits hard and can make you hunch over and vomit (i'm not talking about a primal...i'm just talking about a really bad day). it's mind-blowing despair. the feeling is not caused by your present-day problems - most people's adult lives are not that bad. it is a feeling from the past. without a reality-based intellect, suicidal people may see death as the only real option. there are times when breaking down is not the right thing to do. it's important to remember where that feeling is coming from (the past) and to look forward, when you can, and find the little things that provide some kind of real or neurotic reward. being super-intellectual is ok if it stops you from plummeting into despair, but it's not ok if it stops you from getting to the primal center.Richard Atkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13587935146938446604noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-59404411793809413662012-02-05T22:57:24.594-08:002012-02-05T22:57:24.594-08:00I have always thought humor was important to survi...I have always thought humor was important to survival and sanity. Irony is good. Sarcasm is hard to resist at times. I think it is merited at times. Its not just controlling bastards who use it. You mention your dad tries to win arguments, I assume, whether right or wrong does not matter to him.<br /><br />My father is interesting because first he decided whether he wants or likes something or not, then minimize it or maximize it to justify it. That is, if he wants to do it, then he tries his best to justify it, and could care less whether it makes sense or not. If he does not like or want it, then he tries to condemn it as best as he can. He is a sophist, though not a very good one. He is not sharp witted.<br /><br />But I find many really only care about self justification, not objective (and often painful) truth. Objective truth requires a certain amount of courage and willingness to plunge a dagger into ones own ego. Almost no one wants to do that, right? But I do feel that whether we feel primal pains or not, we still need to examine the left over “beliefs” and ideas about life and ourselves to see if they can stand objectively through reason and analysis rather than through justification, right or wrong.apollohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02040184843184207525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-64447420574916215882012-02-04T03:02:45.438-08:002012-02-04T03:02:45.438-08:00Hi,
-"Years ago one of my staff said that sui...Hi,<br />-"Years ago one of my staff said that suicide was logical given a ruined life. What do you all think? Art<br /><br />If I remember correctly, in an earlier contribution Tony Riley tentatively pointed out that Primal is no picnic. . . he mentioned having to deal with suicidal feelings and fantasies.<br /><br />Feeling like dying. . . I struggle with this one, it's birth and/or gestational trauma coming up through limbic to my intellect. BUT (and this is the big BUT) because I know PRIMAL THEORY, I no longer "believe" in the "Logical Conclusion of my Ruined Life". <br /><br />Which just goes to prove how important Primal Theory is for 'Logic' (and life, if, IF you want a life).<br /><br />Nevertheless you can't reason your way out of a suicidal feeling or thought. Better, much better to sit down quietly, safely and find the point at which you can let it all go. Break down and cry it out.<br /><br />Paul G.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006514330039884557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-38455632137539263582012-02-04T02:43:36.861-08:002012-02-04T02:43:36.861-08:00Hi Planespotter and all,
Small children do not un...Hi Planespotter and all,<br /><br />Small children do not understand the difference between 'Irony' and 'Sarcasm'.<br /><br />How could they when their reasoning function has not yet formed beyond the gratification of basic need. Therefore small children should be saved from complex conflicts in the family, group, village.<br /><br />As adults I have found the ironic perceptions of my peers has saved my life from ruin and my friends from my vindictive sarcasm.<br /><br />Generally speaking Irony is the sharing of difficult contradictions. I feel & think I'm doing the right thing teaching my 9yr old daughter Ironic humour, she's getting the hang of it and it helps her deal with the contradictions in life, helps her grow out of her own simplistic narcissism . Irony is part of Satire. To be able to be satirical (without the vengeance or sarcasm) is a real human achievement and helps steer us toward true feelings though the maze of human intellectualism.<br /><br />Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit; controlling bastards with a lot of pain use it to put other people down. I used to be a sarcastic bastard because my Dad is a sarcastic bastard. . . .<br /><br />He still mistakes my Ironic humour as sarcasm aimed at him (or his Kissenger like belief system). My Dad is still stuck at the narcissistic stage where words ARE meaning and whoever can WIN the argument is the BEST person. . .<br /><br />Paul G.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006514330039884557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-34870583448422932902012-02-04T02:01:01.236-08:002012-02-04T02:01:01.236-08:00One of my cousins has tried to kill himself twice ...One of my cousins has tried to kill himself twice though not very well. More a cry for help than anything else. I have felt suicidal at times. Perhaps the pain of slitting one's wrists becomes less than the wall of pain facing one. Perhaps it is an attempt to get back to the safer darkness and unconcious warmth of the womb?<br />Perhaps it is simply the person wanting to stay who they know themselves to be and in a society where we are all told who we should be rather being respected for who we are then to kill oneself is to powerfully make a statement about being oneself and in control of oneself. A friend who works in social services told me that many suicide notes of teenagers who have killed themselves tend to say that they just want to be themselves when they are being forced to be who their Parents, teachers and schools want them to be.planespotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05315637682741508786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-11071573815834524782012-02-03T22:47:41.975-08:002012-02-03T22:47:41.975-08:00Oh, what a juicy question. Deep and challenging. L...Oh, what a juicy question. Deep and challenging. Lets consider this. If you look back and see nothing but pain and no joy and see no prospect of any real change in the future, what hope or incentive is there to go on? This is a purely logical analysis. Bu we are not purely logical. We have that drive/will to live, against almost any odds. That makes us keep going when logic would suggest it is not worth bothering.<br /><br />If there is no hope for the future, no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, then any sane person might say, game over! I am out of here!<br /><br />I have often thought that suicide might be the result of the intellect finally winning out over irrational desire to live or keep struggling. My brother was a possible suicide. But his parents made him think he was the only thing that mattered and he was great just because he was him. His ego went sky high. But when he could not live up to that image, he drank till he died. He had messed his life up so bad there was no point in continuing. I agree with his conclusion. He never asked but I read behind the lines. He was in TX anyway and I was in ME.<br /><br />I know the theory that pain makes people kill themselves. Indeed, sometimes that may be the case. I am not so sure it is always the case. Hope is a funny thing. Hope can be quite reasonable or it can be completely irrational. How do we know which one it is?<br /><br />Obviously love could make quite a difference, but love is a very rare commodity. I don’t spend much time worrying about it, since I have purposes and plans and a hope, too, to boot, huh? Love can wait or even got to hell for I care. It can often be an irrational hope.<br /><br />Either one can find true legitimate hope or one that you can run after to make you keep going. The only (3rd) option left is to forget about hope. Then we advance to purpose and plans. But here is the strange thing about it all. No matter how you slice it, it does come down to one of those basic questions we all struggle with once in a while. Was life an accident or was it by purpose and intention?<br /><br />I say that if one concludes it is an accident, then you can pretty much forget about purpose and meaning. If not an accident, then what the hell caused it and why?<br /><br />I offer this one warning. And you can laugh all you want. Hey, I always wanted to be a successful comedian. But in not too much more time, those is very high political places are going to put on a show and say aliens did it and now they have come back to save us. Beware of false messiahs and liars and poorly written scripts, too ;-)<br /><br />And don’t nobody give me any of that pain bull$h!T. Address my logic. Where did I go wrong in my chain of thoughts? Try and answer that, please, if you can and dare!apollohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02040184843184207525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-34730636692784903382012-02-03T09:47:48.387-08:002012-02-03T09:47:48.387-08:00Years ago one of my staff said that suicide was lo...Years ago one of my staff said that suicide was logical given a ruined life. What do you all think? ArtArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-40000925931049613612012-02-03T04:52:11.229-08:002012-02-03T04:52:11.229-08:00Hi Planespotter,
I reckon we should abolish the r...Hi Planespotter,<br /><br />I reckon we should abolish the royal family because as long as this "Authoritarian" system of "Symbolic Rule" continues to influence the British Culture (& THEREFORE GLOBAL CULTURE) it intrinsically supports wilful cognitive abuse of children as both 'incentive' and 'disincentive'.<br /><br />Do you get it? It is a torture regime whereby the abused abuse the abusers and each 'layer' each 'class' each 'sibling' in the hierarchy feels powerful and in charge of themselves because they are following a symbolic act out of HUMILIATION / REVENGE.<br /><br />AS ABOVE, SO BELOW. . . It never did me any harm. . . SMACK!!!!!!<br /><br />I rest my case.<br /><br />Paul G.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006514330039884557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-33090510814932046222012-02-03T04:43:39.884-08:002012-02-03T04:43:39.884-08:00Hi Jacquie,
-"again, evolution weeding out t...Hi Jacquie,<br /><br />-"again, evolution weeding out those unloved, as cruel as that sounds.<br />Jxx"-<br /><br />Excuse me but what was going through your mind when you wrote this? Also:<br /><br />-"Hi Paul<br />I'm sorry if I've inadvertently offended you, no offence intended, this is not personal"-<br /><br />Jacquie, I am not at all offended by you or your words, why should I take what you say personally? Nevertheless, I am extremely curious and perplexed by the way your words appear to 'reason'. Also:<br /><br />-"I'm sorry you were institutionalised, and I'm glad you've found this blog/Primal".<br /><br />Look, please don't feel sorry for me, what about your true self Jacquie, what about the little Jacquie whos' parents separated? Who gets migraines and who has to face child abuse at work?<br /><br />Try to take care of your true self before you start 'feeling sorry' for others, and I mean that most sincerely folks. . . .<br /><br />Paul G.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006514330039884557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-72915049136379730732012-02-02T23:15:43.388-08:002012-02-02T23:15:43.388-08:00Jack, that was a very good analysis you gave. Good...Jack, that was a very good analysis you gave. Good reasons for not breeding or at least giving breeding serious thought. Most people interpret the Bible's seemingly prohibitive sexual restraints is to insure protection of the conceived, and that after birth, it has parents who belong to a larger community that help reinforce marriage and decent rules of conduct for all. this is a broad attempt to old the whole community into a better place for a child.<br /><br />As for any who would like to dump on the Bible, I have no problem with that as long as they can come up with something equal or better. But breeding means a large commitment, not just from parents but from community and country. If we all get laid off and unemployed, what will that do for a child? All the world's problems become all the children's problems. If a couple suffers uncertainty and public chaos, their suffering will affect that child.<br /><br />I really respect your post in this regard. Would like to see more of the same. It needs said. You are doing well at saying it. Keep it up.apollohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02040184843184207525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-961201100844027632012-02-02T11:38:44.448-08:002012-02-02T11:38:44.448-08:00Looks like there are a few second hand one's o...Looks like there are a few second hand one's on Amazon.complanespotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05315637682741508786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-15516756109913981542012-02-02T11:36:52.492-08:002012-02-02T11:36:52.492-08:00Hi Paul G
I take your point and I know that Dr Ja...Hi Paul G<br /><br />I take your point and I know that Dr Janov states that violence can be caused in the womb. I worked in Taiwan about ten years ago in the ceramics industry. I took some small Wedgewood jugs and presents and handed them out at various meetings. What was fascinating was the look of bemusement on the recipients faces. These people worked with clay all the time and yet these little products were alien to them. "What are they" I was asked and I explained and smiles of recognition appeared. The Chinese don't use jugs. They use bowls. We use what we know in other words.<br /><br />If people are treated with respect in childhood by their parents and see their parents treat each other with respect and sort out problems (even if exasperated with each other) using good language that can explain and express deep emotions carefully and thoughtfully to another person who has empathy for the other person why should either Parent need to brandish clubs? Thus why would they need other empathic people to step in. It struck me that in some ways the other members of the tribe were humiliating the two people with sarcasm and irony which does not strike me as empathic.<br /><br />As aside it states that everyone dies of either trees falling on them or heart attacks due to the humidity. Maybe this tribe is a right Brain biased tribe due to how they interact?<br /><br />There is another African tribe and I can't remember the name who are held up as great examples of interaction etc and the article I read was illustrated with a proud woman's face with three deep scars below her eyes. The wounds were added so that the salt in her tears would sting and teach her not to cry! Need I say more.<br /><br />Maybe we are the crazy Ape forced out of the Jungle onto the seashore where we ate seafood and grew our crazy Brain? Perhaps our very intelligence is partly to do with being crazy. Perhaps physcopaths developed great intelligence (which I gather that some have) because they needed to outwit their persecutors and win them over rather than be hurt again. It would seem to fit with the notion that they are very manipulative and cunning often and able to act to get their way. The fact that past Centuries have seen the crazies ruling countries and becoming the elite and thus somehow intelligence grew as part of centuries of brutal child rearing. Empathy was lost in exchange for intelligence born of suffering. Look at the UK. A nation of inventors and shop keepers and the stiff upper lip. Drug fueled Viking Invaders, Physcotic Norman's, Celts, Picts and Angles. Wave after wave of violent invasion. Centuries of disconnected Corpus Callum (wrong spelling). Dark Satanic Mills, the darkness of Dickens etc etc. Where is the true human on this little island? How much real love gets dished out here. Our governments love the idea of "tough love", in other words if it's not hurting then it's not doing us any good just like Mummy and Daddy brought up the Elite and just about everyone else. <br /><br />Maybe our next evolutionary step is to actually become truly sane?planespotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05315637682741508786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-63212024318515477572012-02-02T03:37:50.371-08:002012-02-02T03:37:50.371-08:00Sieglinde, wow I am not sure I have a copy. We w...Sieglinde, wow I am not sure I have a copy. We wrote it 40 years ago, my dear colleague Holden. artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-75311215215636361502012-02-01T05:14:15.899-08:002012-02-01T05:14:15.899-08:00Hi Planespotter
you will find a good description ...Hi Planespotter<br /><br />you will find a good description in of the "Primal Man": The new consciousness, by Arthur Janov and E. Michael Holden (1975) <br /><br />SieglindeS. W. Alexanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12087227301358286386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-72782998997375957322012-01-31T13:36:36.692-08:002012-01-31T13:36:36.692-08:00Hi planespotter, I just had a look at the Pigmy es...Hi planespotter, I just had a look at the Pigmy essay. I cried most of the way through it then I laughed out loud at that bit.<br /><br />It's ironic humour isn't it?<br /><br />Hey, when we get into straits with our loved ones we forget who we are. To be reminded of who we are we need trusted people to empathise with our current mood. By humorously acknowledging the potential to escalate the 'boundary infringement' the friends of each party are helping every-one to own the excessive mood of the would be 'combatants'.<br /><br />One of the problems of the elitist system I went through is that these 'techniques for breaking down barriers' were used in an authoritarian system with neurotic mother fixated exiles. . . I digress.<br /><br />These Ironic Techniques can't work on wounded people. Well they could, if we could find ways to restore the extended family system.<br /><br />(Which is not the same as the 'old school tie network').<br /><br />If, IF we could find a way to restore the extended family system then we could learn and teach many things like this to our children and even to recovering adults like ourselves. There have been many, many attempts in the last 100 years to restore working models and the history of it is encouraging. Committed groups have restored this level of trust. Even us neurotics can do it. We don't need Mr. (or Mrs.) God either.<br /><br />Paul G.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006514330039884557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-25384024905673185312012-01-31T00:34:40.483-08:002012-01-31T00:34:40.483-08:00Hi Dr Janov. I look forward to it.Hi Dr Janov. I look forward to it.planespotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05315637682741508786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-6327954421452102332012-01-30T23:57:35.090-08:002012-01-30T23:57:35.090-08:00Planespotter: I will write a piece on the true nat...Planespotter: I will write a piece on the true nature of man soon. artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-27332411861151774732012-01-30T09:56:29.537-08:002012-01-30T09:56:29.537-08:00Though where did the Pygmy husband and wife learn ...Though where did the Pygmy husband and wife learn to threaten each other with big sticks and clubs? The sceptic in me tends to think that many ancient tribes are held up as great examples of the true nature of man.<br /><br />What is the true nature of man? After all we are still evolving.planespotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05315637682741508786noreply@blogger.com