tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post4418783542004980667..comments2024-02-11T18:16:53.445-08:00Comments on Janov's Reflections on the Human Condition: The Simple Truth is Revolutionary: Deep HopelessnessArthur Janovhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16709863014923629409noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-14897736504555945092014-12-08T17:55:50.309-08:002014-12-08T17:55:50.309-08:00Jack, not sure if my comment was posted so I'm...Jack, not sure if my comment was posted so I'm re-typing as we speak :)<br />It all began with my sick father asking me to relocate him and live with him after he had a few minor strokes. My whole world came to a standstill - my father had always been distant and yet there was an incestuous underlying and sometimes overt surface that I had learned to ignore/deal with over the years. He became violent and when I realized that I really never had his love and never would - I had a major emotional breakdown. And then it was a snowball effect: I started having weekly panic attacks in the middle of my sleep, getting ill for days on end, I could no longer communicate with my OCD/Narcissistic mother, I lost my beloved pet rabbit (she was truly my guardian angel) to a terrible illness, my boyfriend of two years was uncertain about staying with me although he always said/showed how much he loved me, and then I got cancer along with SVC syndrome which is life-threatening. One thing that I treasure from all of this is that, as a true Warrior in life, this near-death 'cleansing' experience has forced me to re-assess my life purpose and lifestyle in general. I am now a Wellness Coach in the area of nutrition and disease-prevention and after Primal Therapy, I plan to have this therapy in addition to my coaching. Another critical juncture for me was cultivating utter unconditional self-love and acceptance, even acceptance of all those cancer cells. I read "Cancer is not a Disease" and the author spoke of certain holistic therapies, including laughter, completely reversing cancers of all kinds.... Your thoughts are greatly appreciated! ~AmyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-17873780569132470682010-03-26T10:55:43.571-07:002010-03-26T10:55:43.571-07:00Nicola. As with all pretenders to doing primal t...Nicola. As with all pretenders to doing primal therapy there is finally a degeneration into some kind of false therapy. It is your life so why not do it right and come to Santa Monica. We cannot recommend anyone in Europe. good luck. art janovArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-74118310893843085502010-03-26T00:57:12.615-07:002010-03-26T00:57:12.615-07:00I have just started reading your site although I h...I have just started reading your site although I have read the New Primal Scream. I read on your site that your weregiving medication to depressives and was really horrified by this. Did I mis-read this? <br /><br />I live in London and was wondering if you knew of anywhere that carried out genuine primal therapy as you practice it. I went to the London group but they have changed how they practice it and it is no longer in alignment with how you practice. I also go to France a lot and was wondering if you had a centre there.nhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11337829209839481447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-3643888224240684552010-03-25T12:15:30.694-07:002010-03-25T12:15:30.694-07:00anonymous4: Check with my office. tel. 310 3922...anonymous4: Check with my office. tel. 310 3922003 AJArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-62181968854286586962010-03-25T01:57:34.776-07:002010-03-25T01:57:34.776-07:00Jack: very well said. art janovJack: very well said. art janovArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-86571914953086591962010-03-24T20:52:34.337-07:002010-03-24T20:52:34.337-07:00Dr. Janov: I'd be there now if I wasn't br...Dr. Janov: I'd be there now if I wasn't broke. Can you tell me more about the financial aid you offer?anonymous4privacyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14645171581123117432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-31711526488624664582010-03-24T16:43:59.830-07:002010-03-24T16:43:59.830-07:00Delphi:
It makes sense to me hat a primal would i...Delphi:<br /><br />It makes sense to me hat a primal would in part feel good, not just bad. If a primal is therapeutic and likewise good for you, then your system should indicate this on some level with some kind of 'reward'.<br /><br />Art has often commented on "how it feels good to feel" in a primal. Again, it makes sense.Andrew D Atkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04492591375757227409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-38148461748245153902010-03-24T15:01:44.983-07:002010-03-24T15:01:44.983-07:00anonymous4: Yes, otherwise you are working insid...anonymous4: Yes, otherwise you are working inside your defense system. You can certainly get help at the primal center. good luck art janovArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-4626045801569117602010-03-24T14:45:09.680-07:002010-03-24T14:45:09.680-07:00My agenda Walden, Is that those that can afford it...My agenda Walden, Is that those that can afford it and have access to it, Primal Therapy is cheap at the price and I, for one, am forever grateful that I was able to do this therapy. However, even for the many that would have loved to have done Primal Therapy, most could not afford it and even some that could had no means to access it. Since Art in "The Primal Scream" laid out succinctly, Primal Theory, I wanted to promote the IMPLICATIONS of that theory. If Primal Theory is correct (and I know from within it is) then first we have a totally new model to look into mental illness and neurosis. and second, from that model we can see a way to "prevent" neurosis in future generations.<br /><br />Let me offer the parallel in the area of science and astronomy. Mankind had been pondering the heavens and attempting to make sense of it for millennium, but until Copernicus (or thereabouts) no-one had offered a theoretical model to explain it. It took some more years before Galileo was able to refine that model and though the authorities of the time denied it (seemingly it was a threat to their own explanations; Genesis and God) it did eventually become almost universally accepted (There are still some flat earth believers and quite a few that subscribe to the absolutism of Genesis). Revolutionary ideas do take a while to get accepted. Primal Theory is one such (revolutionary) idea. Since Primal Therapy is subsumed on the premise of Primal Theory and since the practice of Primal Therapy (in the world at large) is fractionating into several schools and many more practitioners (as did the findings of Freud), arguments for this or that practitioner seem, to me, futile in the broader cognitive awareness of the theory. Further, since delineating the theory into seven short pages (as I have done in my book) and proposing in five pages at the end of the book, how even neurotic parents, who want and love their children 'might' lessen the pain of the next generation, is my prognosis for promoting prevention. As Art stated; it is not a case of 'either or', but that independent of therapy and it's practices we could make a concerted effort to prevent some (specially womb and early childhood damage) to 'the children of tomorrow'.<br /><br />I sure do feel like Galileo.Jack Waddingtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06427501529242639591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-5065616305442317302010-03-24T11:08:17.298-07:002010-03-24T11:08:17.298-07:00Dr. Janov: thank you for responding. But I still c...Dr. Janov: thank you for responding. But I still can't seem to feel fully, even though my feelings are close to the surface and my defenses are weak overall. I end up screaming and crying sometimes when I can't hold it in any longer, but it's not the hopeless cries and deep screams from within that it must take to free me from the pain. It's simply relief. I liken it to an example you gave in the Primal Scream where the patient pounds the pillow. She feels better afterward but the pain soon returns because all she did was drain off excess tension. So I want to know how to fully feel. Do you think it will take PT to do that?anonymous4privacyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14645171581123117432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-51049711736957859872010-03-24T09:03:00.344-07:002010-03-24T09:03:00.344-07:00About the suicidal thoughts in the article :
It m...About the suicidal thoughts in the article :<br /><br />It make me think about Art janov writing in a book that in general, what drive us crazy is not feelings themself but the way we try to escape to them. <br /><br />One who has suicidal thought usually enter into a conlictual racing thinking that in fact is due to the conflict between the rising feeling (I want kill myself) and his "moral" culture or education (it's not good to kill yourself, what about the pain it's gone cause to you family, you can not do that, etc.).<br /><br />Once in that situation of thinking about killing myself, not knowing why but i could later relate it to hoplesness, I told myself "it's ok, you can kill yourself if you want", that did stop the racing mind conflict and gave me relief and tears. I DO NOT PROMOTE SUICIDE by saying that.<br /><br /><br />About why some peoples commit suicide, Art wrote in a comment to a previous post that he once had a therapist in his team who believed that suicide is a way for nature to get rid of the damaged or weakest of us, as a natural selection. As does Art, I don't agree with that. Who is she, nature, by the way ?<br /><br />I think that in an search for osmose from the what we are, we act unconsciously in a way that create a reality that match with our unconscious feelings. One may have a masochistic behavior to match with a feeling of being molested as a child on the rise but not connected. one may stay alone to match with a feeling of being left alone as a child, one may end relations with his mother to match with the 'I have no mom' feeling of a child. One may commit suicide to create a reality (being dead) that match with the being dead feeling coming up from the birth experience and not just to stop the pain as commonly accepted.<br /><br />As a child, I had daydreams about my family and friends and people attending to my funeral. I had this daydream back once recently, in a time after I had experienced part of the hoplesness feeling. I did realise that my mind was in fact creating a scene where I'm dead that match with the feeling <br />"I'm dead" that had not been fully connected when experiencing hopleness.frenchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10818717967210193312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-78155628256483057422010-03-24T01:06:35.183-07:002010-03-24T01:06:35.183-07:00Walden: I really am who I am and if you had read...Walden: I really am who I am and if you had read Primal Healing you would see that we have done many esearches with outside nonprimal people. The truth is that we are far far advanced over what we used to be. art janovArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-65630803204378298292010-03-24T01:03:22.407-07:002010-03-24T01:03:22.407-07:00anonymous4: My take is that you are now close to y...anonymous4: My take is that you are now close to your feelings which means that you have a choice; feel them or suppress them. Not much else to do. It is all a good sign. art janovArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-38194325602337814392010-03-24T00:59:20.362-07:002010-03-24T00:59:20.362-07:00Frank: I have thought about suing the APA to get t...Frank: I have thought about suing the APA to get them to prove their methods but I thought better of it. But it is not a stupid idea. artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-3139917441956437692010-03-24T00:57:51.453-07:002010-03-24T00:57:51.453-07:00Walden: No. when you relive there is a chance of ...Walden: No. when you relive there is a chance of reregulating what got deregulated at the beginning. Some of our hypo and hyperthyroids have found this as well as natural killer cells and cortisol, etc. So we reverse the effects by going back into the memory FULLY! with every deviation again present during the primal. We see enormous high blood pressure during a primal which then dives below base line permanently. artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-36154627798837103442010-03-24T00:55:24.093-07:002010-03-24T00:55:24.093-07:00I know Frank. art.I know Frank. art.Arthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-72081816030847917092010-03-23T19:18:07.259-07:002010-03-23T19:18:07.259-07:00Art,
With all due respect, people have to do more...Art,<br /><br />With all due respect, people have to do more than "stay and see it through". They have to attend whatever primal organization your are running at the moment, even if they had their therapy in 1970. It seems like it's all good going forward (at the Primal Center) and all crap before that. But you were saying the same thing back then, too! I'm not a dummy, Art. I can see the pattern in that. Primal not working? More Primal, but at the Primal Center now. You have a tough question? Buy and read all my books. Oh boy.<br /><br />The problem is that Primal Therapy a la Janov is like the ultimate violin that can be played only by one person, and since there can be no observers, we have to take that violinist's word for how good the music is. Don't you see that? And don't you see how it is fatal for what you have invented? Do you care?<br /><br />Post this if you like; I realize it's not very friendly. I don't dislike you, just the opposite. But your ways frustrate the heck out of me.<br /><br />Maybe you're not really Arthur Janov but somebody paid to attend the website? With this technology, anything's possible.<br /><br />WaldenWaldenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10764833480863624204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-18626340002927252602010-03-23T16:01:27.384-07:002010-03-23T16:01:27.384-07:00Dr. Janov: I have to know what you think of this. ...Dr. Janov: I have to know what you think of this. It's been nagging at me all week. For the first time in my life I woke up crying. I had a dream in which my mother was yelling at me and I jumped up and shoved her. I didn't really think about it; I just did it. It was kind of reflexive. Afterward I got panicky and started trying to apologise. But not because I was sorry for shoving her but it was more like I was apologising to myself for losing control. (I usually don't say/do anything--I hide my pain/anger behind a stone face.) In the dream I tried to regain control but couldn't and I started crying and woke up crying. What's your take on this?anonymous4privacyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14645171581123117432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-2401745907224587832010-03-23T02:23:39.757-07:002010-03-23T02:23:39.757-07:00Art
Our understanding of the physiological process...Art<br />Our understanding of the physiological process and lack of psychological connections is the real issue of psychological knowledge and should be sufficient for a legal process ... a process that not least would get the attention Primal Therapy deserve. A report on the content during this process would have… by my opinion a revolutionary effect. I have been present around the primal therapy since the mid seventies ... I ask people today about their knowledge, the answer is frighteningly low. Something to think about?<br />FrankFrankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02242354226308728116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-5332890039334535212010-03-23T01:34:25.314-07:002010-03-23T01:34:25.314-07:00Erron: When people stay and see it through we are ...Erron: When people stay and see it through we are very successful. But don't forget it is not just successful by what patients say; it is because we make serious changes in the brain and physiology. That is what is missing in other therapies. artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-81602506020268522462010-03-23T01:32:03.101-07:002010-03-23T01:32:03.101-07:00Richard. Very well said. art janovRichard. Very well said. art janovArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-51283541365070605442010-03-22T23:53:51.510-07:002010-03-22T23:53:51.510-07:00Art,
I know that the knowledge of primal therapy i...Art,<br />I know that the knowledge of primal therapy is sufficient… nobody could miss the content at a consultation. Cognitive methods have only symptomatic changes as result while primal therapy has physiological proof ... how should it be with a legal process at the matter?<br />FrankFrankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02242354226308728116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-16556362991400034282010-03-22T20:00:07.446-07:002010-03-22T20:00:07.446-07:00Dr. Janov,
Above you say "reverse what happe...Dr. Janov,<br /><br />Above you say "reverse what happened to us early on". Is that what you mean? It can be confusing. There is the original trauma, and then there is my response to that. The trauma "happened" to me, and in a sense so did my adaptation. I would believe that some of the adaptation could be reversed, but as something once learned, I would not believe that it could ever be eradicated. As far as the trauma itself being "reversed", that sounds like time machine material. I know there are scientists who think that the right drugs introduced into the right brain parts (no "right brain" pun intended) at the right time, can erase unpleasant memory. Your claim sounds a little bit like that, but I think you would not intend an interpretation like that. Is this correct?<br /><br />WaldenWaldenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10764833480863624204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-20592972171583709182010-03-22T19:44:15.728-07:002010-03-22T19:44:15.728-07:00Hi all,
I guess everyone has an agenda. Mine is:...Hi all,<br /><br />I guess everyone has an agenda. Mine is: find a way to leverage the current sway and interest in cognitive-based disciplines toward a primal focal point. Change direction profoundly through a series of turns, not by trying to apply the brakes and jamming into reverse. Swimming alongside the Queen Mary, we can't stop her, but we can nudge her to the left.<br /><br />Jack's agenda seems to be: forget about therapy and focus on education. Jack, I don't think there could be any such program, and I wonder why you think therapy is a poor investment. Let me explain further. As an organic gardener, I think everything in the garden is interrelated systems and you can't push on this without perturbing that, so to speak. Specifically, if you were to mount a huge educational program, two things would arise out of system dependencies. One is that learning to treat our children more humanely is also teaching us to treat each other and ourselves more humanely, and when that happens, feelings arise. What will we do with those? A program on enlightened child rearing becomes a magnet for adult therapy.<br /><br />The other system effect is that the education gets absorbed into a system (the neurotic adult) who thinks he/she perceives the lesson, but is only receiving what the neurotic filters will allow in. Therefore, temperance becomes cowardly indulgence and firm guidance becomes abuse and terror. And so on, but with a newly learned set of rationales that we can use to defend existing maladaptive behaviors. It's not a matter of ill intent, but a matter of partial blindness.<br /><br />These are two reasons why I just don't think you can have one and not the other. To move a large system out of its entrenched behavior, you need to apply pressure at multiple sites. That's why I think therapy will always be very important. Another reason: there must be a NOW, not just a future. Therapy is help now.<br /><br />What do you think?<br /><br />WaldenWaldenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10764833480863624204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-69709000112396814522010-03-22T16:55:03.536-07:002010-03-22T16:55:03.536-07:00Art,
Okay so you write books, as you’ve said befo...Art,<br /><br />Okay so you write books, as you’ve said before whenever you want to blow someone off. Pity you don’t always read what we post with the same comprehension and respect you expect us to oblige you with. <br /><br />Your reply answers none of the questions I asked, it simply repeats the premise that led to me asking them, namely “If you relive the first prototype, a great deal will change because that is what made for disregulation in the first place”. I know that, I do read books, and I have collected and read all yours. <br /><br />I mean, what’s the problem? Was my asking for an estimate of success with patients what got to you? If you continue to bang on about how important first line reliving is, and imply that it’s only possible through PT, is it not a valid query to ask how often you achieve success with this?<br /><br />Erronraindoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09714998714610881831noreply@blogger.com