tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post3920802611404798073..comments2024-02-11T18:16:53.445-08:00Comments on Janov's Reflections on the Human Condition: The Simple Truth is Revolutionary: Psychology and Ideology. How Could Anyone (Except the Rich) Vote for George Bush? By Peter Prontzos (2/6)Arthur Janovhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16709863014923629409noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-5616137641264583002012-05-29T12:58:35.670-07:002012-05-29T12:58:35.670-07:00Hi planespotter,
The only sacrifices I make are f...Hi planespotter,<br /><br />The only sacrifices I make are for my kids.<br /><br />I have to say that if I were in the way of money and success that would allow me and my kids the benefits of, say Primal Therapy or a house I could sell to pay for my children to get PT then I would probably take the same attitude as you. Maybe not. The rest of my family are also highly repressed and useless as friends and confidants; for eg: When I told my older brother I had a serious breakdown as a consequence of all I've been through he said "Well Paul, no matter if you were a mass murderer I'll always be your brother". . . (!) He doesn't even send me a card at Christmas or Birthdays. How f*****g insensitive and condescending is that throw away remark? <br /><br />Nevertheless the snake in me is a tad devious. You see these crass morons I am related to may serve a purpose yet. I am moving out of town and my application for re-housing in a different county is supported by my brother in the new application region where he lives and also is my place of work. Such a move requires these alliances.<br /><br />Maybe, if I can summons the occasional compassion for my parents and brother who still try to be nice to me (though my mother has nearly forgotten who everybody is), just maybe I will get something from them. I am not waiting though, oh no, not waiting. . .<br /><br />Also having children makes a big difference, I feel it is better to keep the door open so to speak. . .<br /><br />It is an uneasy alliance, one I would not wish on others but I have concluded I have to live with their past effect on me as well as with the knowledge of their existence and if that means I have to live with their denial then it's better to know my enemy and consciously observe their dubious behaviour.<br /><br />(How f*****g cognitive is that)! ?<br /><br />Paul G.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006514330039884557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-84638968001164323922012-05-28T12:15:03.905-07:002012-05-28T12:15:03.905-07:00Hi Paul
You show great loyalty in the face of gre...Hi Paul<br /><br />You show great loyalty in the face of great neglect from them. It's more than i could manage. I am not going to sacrifice my life for them. There are deep bruises in my subconcious which easily get inflamed if I have any contact with them now. It takes days to calm down. I embraced Alice Millers view that one should get in touch with one's rage. I feel real rage at the moment in that my arrogant sister and stupid Mother are sitting there planning things out and probably bitching about me. Put them together and it's like facing Shakespeares witches. I really hate them.planespotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05315637682741508786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-62425486073149087812012-05-27T01:50:25.014-07:002012-05-27T01:50:25.014-07:00Sapristi Jack! Thank you for this message! It'...Sapristi Jack! Thank you for this message! It's exactly what I needed to read today. How good it is to know that I may feel. All my life I waited (and also feared) somebody tell me: "you know Laurent, you can cry if you're sad". I agree with you. It should be simple. Sometimes it is very tempting to hide our misery behind a veil of complicated explanations.<br /><br />LaurentLaurenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05937691904891008584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-23339618160271709852012-05-26T12:06:52.512-07:002012-05-26T12:06:52.512-07:00Hi Jack
Yes Sadness, Anger and Fear all chime wit...Hi Jack<br /><br />Yes Sadness, Anger and Fear all chime with me. Is RAGE perhaps a lower and more primal feeling than anger though. Perhaps anger is almost linked to consciousness in that it expresses anger at having one's needs ignored.<br /><br />I have this brilliant picture of a small monkey in Costa Rica who has just failed to open a waste bin full of food. The look of sheer frustration on his face including a raised eyebrow only goes to illustrate that animals have complex feelings prior to thinking.planespotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05315637682741508786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-57772488979017574122012-05-25T14:08:05.265-07:002012-05-25T14:08:05.265-07:00"Terror" is a pretty nebulous concept. I..."Terror" is a pretty nebulous concept. It can be sold to the masses pretty well.<br /><br />From the song Vietnow by Rage Against the Machine:<br /><br />"Merge on the networks, slangin' nerve gas<br />Up jump the boogie then bang, let 'em hang<br />While the paranoid try to stuff the void<br />Let's capture this AM mayhem<br />Undressed, and blessed by the Lord<br />The power pendulum swings by the umbilical cord<br />Shock around the clock, from noon 'til noon<br />Men grabbin' their mics, and stuff 'em into the womb<br />Terror's the product ya push<br />Well I'm a truth addict, oh shit I gotta headrush"<br /><br />I like the term "truth addict". In a way I consider Art a truth addict. I also consider myself a truth addict but then again, I think lots of things about myself that may or may not be true.<br /><br />I'm really not sure what my point in all this is, but maybe it doesn't really matter.AnttiJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12010248788384946781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-13719148271024315082012-05-25T13:52:00.284-07:002012-05-25T13:52:00.284-07:00Hi Planespotter,
I understand a little about your...Hi Planespotter,<br /><br />I understand a little about your experience. My mother has dementia and my Dad has moved out of their home and after decades of neglect by them of both me, my brother and our children I can honestly say I am 'struggling' with my loyalty to their problems.<br />My Dad talks at me incessantly about his obsession with mum and the authorities neglect of her. I have even helped him and he has grudgingly thanked me for good advice. . . but when I look back what has he or mum done for me?<br /><br />I cry for my mum as a child and I have wept about my Dad as a child but as an adult? I sort of couldn't care less. I will cry at their funerals and I will do what I can to comfort them as they become more infirm. . . but I will not put them before my own children whom they have completely neglected. . .<br /><br />Paul G.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006514330039884557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-7560268028828101032012-05-25T10:36:45.336-07:002012-05-25T10:36:45.336-07:00Art: Here I go again ... it really bothers me th...Art: Here I go again ... it really bothers me that we humans have this desire to EXPLAIN all this stuff instead of just feel subjectively what's going on. Even the most neurotic of us are still able to feel in-so-far as we know when we need to go to the bathroom; we know when a pin pricks us, we know when we itch, and on and on and on. Yet there are all these student/scientist looking for something to study in order to get their PhD's so they'll hopefully get a good research job and then hopefully be able to live comfortably.<br /><br />I want to emphasize that what Primal Theory taught us is TO KNOW (cognitively) that half our brain got clogged up and we have no access to it unless we can START (yeah! just start) to express those feelings that got shoved into the 'back of our minds'. I would suggest (correct me if I am wrong Art), but those feelings are essentially SADNESS, ANGER and FEAR. All the other feelings sit on top of those (sorry to use this piece of jargon) 'repressed' feelings. It's such a simple notion ... but even that one we've convoluted.<br /><br />Andrew Atkin wrote "I think, 'unconscious thoughts' are just ......." I would suggest if you are THINKING about 'that, that is blocked off' we are already on the wrong track. How about feeling and then expressing that feeling. It's a TWO STATES OFF BEING (thinking and feeling)... we can go on and on and on thinking that somehow through THINKING we are going to find answers. Is that NOT OUR CRAZINESS ?????? Is that not the very essence of neurosis??? Is that not what you Art, so brilliantly discovered ... and then defined???<br /><br />JackJack Waddingtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06427501529242639591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-26681950861495221882012-05-25T03:03:15.597-07:002012-05-25T03:03:15.597-07:00This is off course a blog where deeper explanation...This is off course a blog where deeper explanations are tried to be found but I really cannot see why there should be one truth that is politically correct and that is the left.The left, once the domain of progressive thought, has become the most conservative in the spectrum.Partly because the issues of the left have become common ground,equality of men and woman and others.So what is the left good for nowadays.<br />I think it is a quite bitter explanation why people voted for Bush,that he should have created an image of fear.(people are not stupid) <br /> <br /><br />Paul╔╬╝https://www.blogger.com/profile/04177205449720864631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-83504562313732203062012-05-24T17:07:20.423-07:002012-05-24T17:07:20.423-07:00I think "unconscious thoughts" are reall...I think "unconscious thoughts" are really just thoughts that we have consciously, but do not take note of so are forgotten pretty much as soon as they pass through our mind, but have an affect on our mind after they have passed. For example I don't think ideas just 'pop' into our heads from an unconscious base; we just forget the free-thinking train of thought that led to them. Everything is ultimately an A-to-B process of triggering via associations.<br /><br />I have always thought that all processes ultimately run through our conscious experience. (Blocked memory is not a 'process' as such, I don't believe. It's a rigid block of information left in storage, though somehow driving tension and compulsion).Andrew D Atkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04492591375757227409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-72394327652917856772012-05-24T16:27:59.295-07:002012-05-24T16:27:59.295-07:00Jan: Thank you, but there are no unconscious thoug...Jan: Thank you, but there are no unconscious thoughts; or very few and very primitive. Real thoughts are top level cortical affairs not deep in the brain so where did they get that? artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-1488687080574321822012-05-24T14:11:52.796-07:002012-05-24T14:11:52.796-07:00Very off topic but kind of related. Bush senior an...Very off topic but kind of related. Bush senior and Bush junior. Father and Son. A dysfunctional relationship. I learned that my Father died today. He died a few days ago. His lungs collapsed and rotted away over the last few years. Probably due to not being able to breath because of my controlling Mother. He wrote me a letter that was suppossed to reach me before he died asking that I did not attend his funeral. He did'nt call me my real name but the one which was imposed on me. Even in his last letter to me he could not even bare to respect me. I got a photocopy from my sister rather than the real one. My sister is like my Father. Patronising, disdainful and incredibly sentimental. I am not welcome to the funeral. One goes to funerals to express respect for the dead so why should I go?<br /><br />It is going to be an interesting experience to go through the mourning process. Was I sad or upset when I got the letter. No I was furious and raging. The Bastard had got away with his abuse of me and perhaps others. I probably won't sleep tonight. Perhaps other stuff will come to the surface now. I have a sense of peace too. At long last he is gone. No longer will that sad little bully of a weak man be sitting a 100 miles away. His letter was almost a cry of victory from him I think. I won you little runt. <br /><br />What dreadful and bullying family I come from and in many ways I feel free from the bitching and backbiting and screaming and bullying that they think is normal.planespotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05315637682741508786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-83108925441602962222012-05-24T02:57:00.642-07:002012-05-24T02:57:00.642-07:00How much of that unconcious 98% is actually trauma...How much of that unconcious 98% is actually trauma. If Art suggests that most people are wandering around unconcious and that the vast amount of the unconcious is due to trauma then what would a recovered Primal person at the end of therapy have as a percentage balance of concious and unconcious.<br /><br />There are some alarm bells ringing here as it seems to me that this is simply Freud's Drive theory in another form. If one see's Freud's later theories (post 1896) as his denial of early trauma then what's the difference.<br /><br />If one takes Art's three layer of Brain theory and looks at his theory of trauma then each and everyone of those layers are effected by early imprints of pain including the amygdela and the fight, flight or freeze response.<br /><br />It strikes me that in a way it's yet another abusers get out of jail free card as are freud's Drive theories. Also it means that rather than face one's own pain one can "Oh I am sorry I murdered your daughter it was the 98% of my unconctrolable subconcious!"planespotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05315637682741508786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-44215559087028401882012-05-24T00:39:10.163-07:002012-05-24T00:39:10.163-07:00I think there is a more decisive factor than fear ...I think there is a more decisive factor than fear of terrorism and this is the economy. When Bush won the election for the second time the economy was relatively good. In fact without the 2008 crisis Obama may not have won.<br /> As for the theory of plasticity in its foundation is refuted by primal therapy. According to Arthur Janov's first and second line of the brain is impossible to change without reliving the pain.chyronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15298428106587062871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-34684569716149702052012-05-23T23:57:33.012-07:002012-05-23T23:57:33.012-07:00Why should they not vote for Bush,is that not demo...Why should they not vote for Bush,is that not democracy that you can choose?<br />Is there not a changing from left to right and back all the time.<br /><br />In my opinion the left completely failed in response to these new threats,they had no answers.But that has been the situation here.<br />I am cured from left.(not that I am right) <br /><br />Paul╔╬╝https://www.blogger.com/profile/04177205449720864631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-9823412226044268952012-05-23T09:14:55.892-07:002012-05-23T09:14:55.892-07:001 to 2 % of my thoughts
The fact that 98 to 99% o...1 to 2 % of my thoughts<br /><br />The fact that 98 to 99% of our thoughts and emotions are unconscious according to Lakeoff’s and Kandel’s estimations and guesses, makes me feel good about how I over 50 years have been unconsciously convinced that I eventually would find a way out of my prison of pain. It, certainly, was not achieved in one giant step or through a quick revolution, but by countless number or small steps and continuos (often painful) adjustments. <br /><br />It has been a lifelong rehabilitation process, in which the fact that I, basically, was “being emotionally” nourished by Art Janov’s Primal Principals, gave me the knowledge, technique and confidence to refashion my life and brain. It has certainly been a complex and dialectical journey which has been determined by both nature and nurture.<br /><br />There have been opinions that I have been a “prisoner” of Art Janov, who is so fortunate to have a genius’s access to our emotions and unconscious. To demystify my epilepsy and my neuroses, Art’s genius has been as indispensable as oxygen and the serotonin founding sunlight for my survival.<br />So contrary to what people might think, Art guided me out of my prison of pain and made, although delayed, my healthy emotional development into freedom possible! <br /><br />Jan JohnssonJan Åke Johnssonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15107966321155297159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-48516737290347335612012-05-23T08:26:37.259-07:002012-05-23T08:26:37.259-07:00So in essense even in later life we can spend time...So in essense even in later life we can spend time with one person such as a spouse and they can change our brain too?planespotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05315637682741508786noreply@blogger.com