tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post2757405390965088884..comments2024-02-11T18:16:53.445-08:00Comments on Janov's Reflections on the Human Condition: The Simple Truth is Revolutionary: Stop The World I Want to Get Off!Arthur Janovhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16709863014923629409noreply@blogger.comBlogger59125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-3281040870438374862009-12-17T16:04:01.415-08:002009-12-17T16:04:01.415-08:00Jack, what is your definition of science? Other t...Jack, what is your definition of science? Other therapists question the scientific validity of primal therapy, while Art says other therapies are not real science.<br />It seems like everyone has a different definition.<br /><br />One definition of science from dictionary.com: "Knowledge gained by systematic study"<br /><br />Using this definition we can say that any religion can be backed up with science. We can systematically study all sorts of "evidence" such as scriptures and possible remnants of noahs ark etc. until we come to a logical but assumptive conclusion.<br /><br />Another definition:<br />"Knowledge or skill reflecting a precise application of facts or principles"<br /><br />This one is getting warmer but if the facts or principles are irrelevant then we can still end up with bogus science.<br /><br />In other words "science" is whatever you want it to be. Proof is whatever you want it to be.<br /><br />I'd rather forget about the word "science" and instead, focus on "results". Most therapists are not smart enough to realise they should be looking at Art's results. Therapists need to compare each other's results. They won't...so I won't call it science.Richard Atkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13587935146938446604noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-28562604489215643372009-12-17T08:05:15.404-08:002009-12-17T08:05:15.404-08:00Merci. AJMerci. AJArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-90964609930191473552009-12-16T04:47:53.192-08:002009-12-16T04:47:53.192-08:00Jack
To suggest that the scientific endeavour is ...Jack<br /><br />To suggest that the scientific endeavour is inherently neurotic seems to me to be just plain silly. Maybe you prefer the idea of a future humanity living in some latter day paradise where the lion and the lamb lay down side by side and everyone just smiles while watching the grass grow. . . not for me I am afraid. I have little doubt that some scientists are neurotic, others maybe not, but it is humans who are neurotic, not science, and science, like any other human endeavour can be pursued "un-neurotically". Art's Primal Theory for example is a truly remarkable piece of genuinely scientific work in my opinion.Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14204003205553891204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-91509142134302603422009-12-11T16:47:48.543-08:002009-12-11T16:47:48.543-08:00Dr. Janov,
"Nope" it's not a hard s...Dr. Janov,<br /><br />"Nope" it's not a hard study to design? You must be kidding.<br /><br />Jack, science means knowledge, not control. I agree with you that control over nature, at some degree, is excessive and unhealthy. However, it's naive to think that only humans exert control over nature. Living things exert whatever controls they can to make survival possible. Beavers make dams, for instance, to control the the depth of nesting waters. And so on. Intelligence to the degree that it exists in humans may be relatively new, but that in itself does not make it unnatural.<br /><br />Our intelligence gives us the ability to observe correlations among phenomena, to refine views on cause and effect, and to have responses which are not limited to those capable of the more ancient brain. You can put a negative spin on all that if you like, but why?<br /><br />Sure, there is harm done when one cannot feel the outcome of one's actions on others. But dismissing science and the intelligence that backs it is throwing out too much. I haven't read your book, so I don't know the whole of your position.<br /><br />WaldenWaldenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10764833480863624204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-20390071073908239832009-12-11T14:53:28.265-08:002009-12-11T14:53:28.265-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Richard Atkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13587935146938446604noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-17005306227884272992009-12-10T13:57:06.214-08:002009-12-10T13:57:06.214-08:00Hi Walden,
Judging people who are interested in t...Hi Walden,<br /><br />Judging people who are interested in things like: "Unified Field Theory" was not my point. I was attempting to embrace a far greater concept. To me, "Science" in and of itself is, a neurotic endeavor. I know this I MY notion and not that of Arthur Janov. I have written and published a book that explains this at great length. To mention this in a blog is perhaps seemingly provocative, arrogant, conceited or even misguided. I accept that others feel differently. No other creature does Science, or for that matter many other things we humans indulge in. The other creatures live with 'nature'. We are the only ones that try to control it. That, to me, is the essence of 'neurosis'. JackJack Waddingtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06427501529242639591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-59968600011814016252009-12-08T23:13:42.835-08:002009-12-08T23:13:42.835-08:00Walden: Nope.Walden: Nope.Arthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-23041365238717994652009-12-08T23:11:44.235-08:002009-12-08T23:11:44.235-08:00Herman: cannot write. I had an accident. AJHerman: cannot write. I had an accident. AJArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-16910752469076534912009-12-07T02:18:40.817-08:002009-12-07T02:18:40.817-08:00mister janov,
i was going to ask what has already...mister janov,<br /><br />i was going to ask what has already been asked by previous posters namely why certain people are not taken.<br /><br />this has been a illuminating seeing as one of my personal life goals is to experience primal therapy-- alas the cost [$] is of some concern. we'll see.<br /><br />i have a question about your "vetting" process:<br /><br />what are your privacy standards? if you are not accepted what then happens to your application?<br /><br />i have some questions and concerns but i'll leave it at that.<br /><br />i thank you for your time-- not only that but likewise for all that you have contributed towards the increasing understanding of the human condition.<br /><br />may we one day meet and do our work.<br /><br />best wishes,<br />h~<br /><br />[seattle,wa | 26yrs old | commercial photography, video production | & student]herman esau | founderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17889554191144232141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-40414205502136654562009-12-06T14:53:46.158-08:002009-12-06T14:53:46.158-08:00Andrew Atkin thinks that Dr Janov is on his own wi...Andrew Atkin thinks that Dr Janov is on his own with a "unified field theory". Actually Wilhelm Reich also had a unified field theory, which I see as very compatible with Dr Janov's work. But Dr Janov , of course , disagrees .Anyways I think both have made remarkable discoveries in seeing the Big Picture as far as human beings go. I always wonder how come Science, in the field of human affairs has always been, for the most part, so fragmented, and specialised.macor22https://www.blogger.com/profile/00652948318839690382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-75945257930187956382009-12-06T08:53:54.126-08:002009-12-06T08:53:54.126-08:00Hello Jack,
It's probably true that a lot of ...Hello Jack,<br /><br />It's probably true that a lot of science research is a matter of "looking for love in all the wrong places", but I think it's not for us to judge people who are interested in things like unified field theories and the like. It's possible to be interested in physics even if you're not what Richard is calling a "neurotic scientist". And speaking of science, isn't it a bit unscientific to assert that we know how to prevent mental illness? That would be a rather difficult study to set up, wouldn't it?<br /><br />WaldenWaldenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10764833480863624204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-36911836867314986522009-12-05T11:49:12.606-08:002009-12-05T11:49:12.606-08:00"The professionals are busy justifying their ..."The professionals are busy justifying their work with science."<br /><br />Well said, Jack. Real scientists don't care if they are right or wrong. They care if the science is right or wrong. Neurotic scientists will look for arguments instead of answers.Richard Atkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13587935146938446604noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-70283141965304060592009-12-05T05:06:03.322-08:002009-12-05T05:06:03.322-08:00Jack Waddington,
I think that's just it. The...Jack Waddington,<br /><br />I think that's just it. The psychology world seems to be made up of a mass of people researching a mass of incoherently related parts, but no comprehensive whole. We have people studying this that and the other, and never knowing what the whole thing is all about. <br /><br />I think primal theory moves in the direction towards giving us the big picture, and helping us to get things in proper perspective.<br /><br />It seems like the psychology world is not even interested in a "unified field theory" of the mind. Funny that. On that level I think you really do stand on your own, Dr Janov.Andrew D Atkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04492591375757227409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-74688885654370952222009-12-04T22:44:50.872-08:002009-12-04T22:44:50.872-08:00Jack: Amen, BrotherJack: Amen, BrotherArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-15347962454192697592009-12-04T16:10:40.943-08:002009-12-04T16:10:40.943-08:00I sometimes wonder Art if we/you are 'struggli...I sometimes wonder Art if we/you are 'struggling' with the professionals and sciense in general. The professionals are busy justifying their work with science. That to me IS the problem (yeah, I know I am crazy, arrogant and concieted). Science has for ever been searching for "Unified Feild Theory". well ! I turns up NOT in physics, science or mathematics, but in psychology. Priaml Theory IS Unified Field Theory. Why???? How???? because we now know what is wrong with us humans, period, end. And we now know how to prevnt it--thanks to Art Janov.Jack Waddingtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06427501529242639591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-22418790391823172692009-12-04T13:45:41.411-08:002009-12-04T13:45:41.411-08:00I've never read Shakespeare. I don't read...I've never read Shakespeare. I don't read much. I see genius in certain parts of movies where everything comes together to create a powerful effect....the music and images. I prefer stuff that doesn't require any intellectual interpretation. I might make a movie one day. My music album for kids is almost finished. I hope they like it. It's fun but it's a little bit scarey too. The main character in the music video and book (still to come) is orphaned and adopted by a couple of aggressive creatures (aliens). I'm using a trick used by some other children's book writers (making the reader relate strongly to the main character). I want it to be very immersive...but not too depressing. I'm learning from my nieces....one of which is likely to do primal therapy in the future (I think).Richard Atkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13587935146938446604noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-83285179271036551342009-12-04T11:33:18.268-08:002009-12-04T11:33:18.268-08:00Frank: Well thank you. It was nice to be appreci...Frank: Well thank you. It was nice to be appreciated especially when the professional world ignores you completely. art janovArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-64749594435352827042009-12-04T11:31:23.941-08:002009-12-04T11:31:23.941-08:00Richard: Why don't some of you write to Harvar...Richard: Why don't some of you write to Harvard? I still love Shakespeare. I mean, isn't that great? art janovArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-27027811340161409292009-12-04T00:17:08.110-08:002009-12-04T00:17:08.110-08:00Art,
I wish I could say God bless you… that my ill...Art,<br />I wish I could say God bless you… that my illusion could fool the truth… a saying worthy you fantastic work… but for now I will say… you are fantastic… amazing and outstanding. I will do all I can to have people listening to what you are talking about.<br />Frank LarssonFrankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02242354226308728116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-39441599544578451602009-12-03T20:44:59.470-08:002009-12-03T20:44:59.470-08:00" Canst thou minister to a mind diseased,
Plu..." Canst thou minister to a mind diseased,<br />Pluck from the memory a rooted sorrow,<br />Raze out the written troubles of the brain,<br />And with some oblivious sweet antidote<br />Cleanse the stuff'd bosom of that perilous stuff<br />Which weighs upon the heart? "<br /><br />If I was to use a Shakespeare-to-English translator, it would read "Can you somehow obliviously tear out or burn my bad feeling?"<br /><br />In Shakespearean days, if no person could be blamed for another's grief, then the fault lay with demons. Doctors drilled holes in the skull to let the demons out, or they invented magic potions to kill them.<br /><br />It all sounds too familiar doesn't it? I hope Walden's letter has some effect on the Harvard students.Richard Atkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13587935146938446604noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-51066326320820701922009-12-03T04:22:51.211-08:002009-12-03T04:22:51.211-08:00Marco: What wonderful writing. I never get tired...Marco: What wonderful writing. I never get tired of him. The literary genius of all time. Art janovArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-12746131124151998012009-12-02T22:45:57.325-08:002009-12-02T22:45:57.325-08:00oh well, not to misrepresent myself, I'm fairl...oh well, not to misrepresent myself, I'm fairly content with life(apart from practical issues).<br /><br />Any way, there have always been people, and theories that have to struggle for acceptance, in science.<br /><br />A good example is Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar, who studied star evolution and worked out the Chandrasekhar limit. The limit describes the maximum mass of a white dwarf star, ~1.44 solar masses, or equivalently, the minimum mass, above which a star will ultimately collapse into a neutron star or black hole (following a supernova).<br /><br />from wiki:<br />"When Chandra first proposed this limit during his fellowship at Trinity College in the 1930s, it was opposed by Arthur Eddington and much to Chandra's frustration none of the established physicists in Europe came to his rescue"Phantom88https://www.blogger.com/profile/00552843043994725505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-74576015786674000202009-12-02T17:47:56.327-08:002009-12-02T17:47:56.327-08:00"They need a supervised life."
Wow wow ..."They need a supervised life."<br /><br />Wow wow wow! Mind-boggling to witness therapists know just exactly what it is their clients need!<br /><br />As it may be true that, while going through acute crisis, most "psychotic" (whatever that term means) people need a secure environment where they can be safe from (further) assault and trauma, "secure" doesn't mean "secure<i>d</i>", as in "supervised". Or why not simply "controlled", as in "Let's lock 'em up and throw away the key!"??<br /><br />How about a little more respect for the person in crisis, and his/her own knowledge of what s/he needs?<br /><br />Marian, Denmark, blogger and expert on her own needsMarianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16273435151682585281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-73009149691014699112009-12-02T15:52:14.065-08:002009-12-02T15:52:14.065-08:00Dr Janov: First I would like to clear up a possibl...Dr Janov: First I would like to clear up a possible misunderstanding in one of my previous posts on this thread, to wit that I was accusing you of not doing more for psychotics. Beleive me, I realise the limitations of what you can do, and what psychotics would need. I accuse you of nothing. Your track record speaks for itself. I only brought up the point in a GENERAL way, ie, that some greatly sufferring people out there are getting the least help. That point came up for me even more forcefully and poignantly last night, as I came across a woman, half-passed out on the cold pavement of a street. She was so drunk and/or stoned she could barely walk and talk. And some arrogant teenager, moreover, equally ripped, was propositioning her with some gross sexual advances. Anyways, I brought her to a hospital, and I wonder since then what is happenning her, and how she is, where her life will go...<br /><br />And thanks for the reference to "Howl". I've read it many times. It is very powerful, a great poem. But I keep my distance, as much as I can, from the Beat lifestyle because I don't want to end up like Kerouac, dying by pucking my guts out at 49 because of alcoholism.<br /><br />Finally, mention was made of the incomparable Shakespeare on another thread, and I would like to share the following quote by him with all of you: a lament expressing the anguish of all who have sufferred from emotional illness. And the quote is especially dedicated to Dr Janov and Jack Waddington:<br /><br />Macbeth (distressed) to a doctor:<br /><br /> " Canst thou minister to a mind diseased,<br /> Pluck from the memory a rooted sorrow,<br /> Raze out the written troubles of the brain,<br /> And with some oblivious sweet antidote<br /> Cleanse the stuff'd bosom of that perilous stuff<br /> Which weighs upon the heart? "<br /><br /><br />Pure genius. Marco Ermacoramacor22https://www.blogger.com/profile/00652948318839690382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-63149806387842282292009-12-02T12:55:47.019-08:002009-12-02T12:55:47.019-08:00Do what you have to. we can both wait. art janov...Do what you have to. we can both wait. art janovArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.com