tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post2258819027569560387..comments2024-02-11T18:16:53.445-08:00Comments on Janov's Reflections on the Human Condition: The Simple Truth is Revolutionary: What is New About the Imprint?Arthur Janovhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16709863014923629409noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-76791259103643037552013-07-15T02:20:40.434-07:002013-07-15T02:20:40.434-07:00Hi,
here's another perspective:
The purpos...Hi, <br /><br />here's another perspective: <br /><br />The purposes of collectivizing are many. <br />Primal patients don't really need to collectivize because once induced in the system their individual needs are met. Yet by default they also become advocates for Primal through the evidence of their own progress. Individuals seeking funding from outside agencies for Primal Therapy are probably dependent for their proof on those who have already gained some improvement through having actually had the therapy. That really is the only proof. One can draw apon science research to describe one's own condition but ultimately the only 'proof' of the therapy is from those who have achieved health improvements themselves. The Centre cannot become the representatives of their patients in this respect as it has not the funds nor expertise. The Centre could produce a standardised statement outlining the treatment it offers and why it works for people with various conditions, but that is the most the Centre could do. <br />Maybe, some post Primal patients could collectivise to support a group of pre Primal patient’s applications for funding from their various funding bodies in countries of origin etc. A supporting 'petition'.<br />Most individuals who join groups or collectivise find that the need to remain a member disappears as soon as their personal needs get met. Thus groups form temporarily, they have a limited life.<br />It has been said that groups that remain 'permanent' are potentially suspect; the question emerges: "has this group achieved it's aims"? Or has it lost it's way?<br />Obviously this doesn't apply to communities of individuals living in houses together to settle down and raise children (!). <br />So the purpose of collectivising for pre therapy patients would be to pool resources. More specifically not so much to pool finances (although actually getting funded is a crucial outcome of-course) but to pool their efforts in petitioning the authorities and various funding / medical bodies in order to gain "INFLUENCE" and specifically influence with those agencies in the position to fund therapy not available under the existing provision.<br />Alone, individuals seeking funding and support to do Primal have little or no influence. In an organised group, a collective, these people stand a much better chance of forming a successful "PRESSURE GROUP".<br />There are official channels for such groups to appeal to governments directly. Some government agencies welcome 'applications' as it is their business to do precisely this under legislation called: 'Social Inclusion Policy'. Whether these 'applications' get anywhere is another thing. Nevertheless, historically, 'pooling resources' got a fair few pressure groups what they wanted in the past and that can be repeated in the future.<br /><br />Existing 'power groups' don’t let 'outsiders' in without resistance. All existing power groups (government bodies etc) have some type of Quality Control to make sure the money they hand out doesn't go to the wrong people (!) So, who ever "We" are, "we" can expect hassle and friction along the way. But a way does exist and with sufficient pressure a group of applicants for Primal Therapy are quite likely to get a lot of funding, the money is definitely there but a labyrinth of Q/C checks will stop any old bullshitter from getting funds not worthy to them. A thorough ‘case’ will need to be presented on an individual basis, one by one. A collective could really help write those ‘cases’.<br />Individuals who are in a 'delicate position' regarding their condition and are compromised by 'admitting their problems' to officials who are unlikely to understand (ie: have no empathy) can benefit from membership of a support group /collective because such an organised group can protect the interests of it's most vulnerable members can't it?<br /><br />Or it bloody well should !<br /><br />Paul G.<br />Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006514330039884557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-9811397590401871462013-07-12T17:22:03.149-07:002013-07-12T17:22:03.149-07:00Hi Monica S,
I do remember Monica, but I don’t thi...Hi Monica S,<br />I do remember Monica, but I don’t think it was at weight watchers. I never attended weight watchers. Thank you so much for your well wishes.<br />kindly, Sieglinde<br />S. W. Alexanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12087227301358286386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-84661467904469644152013-07-10T11:49:29.718-07:002013-07-10T11:49:29.718-07:00Paul:
I just read your replies and I am wondering ...Paul:<br />I just read your replies and I am wondering about your answer to Frank (1 July): what do you mean with "collective" ( last line).<br />Thanks for explaining it a little bit more.<br /><br />Richard W.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-49736066197233968482013-07-09T01:23:42.833-07:002013-07-09T01:23:42.833-07:00Desmond: Thanks. This is a real service. artDesmond: Thanks. This is a real service. artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-71094546188402426382013-07-08T08:42:25.460-07:002013-07-08T08:42:25.460-07:00Hi Sieglinde,
also the best wishes for you from M...Hi Sieglinde,<br /><br />also the best wishes for you from Monica ( do you remember- weight watchers..) and I keep my fingers crossed for you!!!<br />Thank you for sharing your deep experiences here. Please take care of you, I'm also thinking about your fulltime job with Alex.....<br />Monica S.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-82354622414148484712013-07-08T07:18:03.021-07:002013-07-08T07:18:03.021-07:00An email comment:
"A month ago i was having ...An email comment:<br /><em> "A month ago i was having a trigger that threw me into first line all i could feel was first line terror.<br />that has been paralyzing me for 4 weeks I did not have any energy anymore.<br /> <br /> <br />I felt it for 4 weeks almost day in day out, and finally i came out of it 3 days ago just in time to go on vacation.<br /> <br />But after the last feeling, in which I went in and out first line, i cried like a baby and early 2 line and than 3 line<br />I am so happy that after feeling the feeling I had so much energy had that I good do all the work at home that i needed to do before I could go on vacation.<br />I was about 5 years old and was not able to function normally like an adult, this was a new to me and felt terrible.<br /> <br />My insight is, that my entire life has been driven by anxiety, every day , was there anxiety and a feeling of being insecure<br /> <br />I would have loved to be secure and happy to start another new day. there was never such a thing for me. <br /> <br />Now I feel alive again! What a relief.<br />Tomorrow we go to France with our caravan for a vacation.<br />We want to travel a couple weeks in that beautiful country to enjoy life."</em>Arthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-63774887775607176982013-07-08T03:56:57.157-07:002013-07-08T03:56:57.157-07:00Art! Dr.Gerson Therapy and for that matter Budwig ...Art! Dr.Gerson Therapy and for that matter Budwig Therapy. are imo!!!<br />NOT booga booga......<br />Everyone! I had heard of who had undergone brain surgery sooner or later...<br />died after those cruel medical intervention!!<br /><br />Sometimes I think of Mr.Shakespeare`s poem:<br />As flies for wanton boys,<br />are we to the Gods(clothed in white!)<br />they kill us for their sports(and income)<br /><br />Yours emanuelemanuelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01380331335118885426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-82116261589421980482013-07-07T17:33:50.384-07:002013-07-07T17:33:50.384-07:00Art,
"When you deal with paramoids it is end...Art,<br /><br />"When you deal with paramoids it is endless because everything you say is misinterpreted and twisted."<br /><br />No kidding. It would be hard for me to explain how far the debunkers took that.<br /><br />"Best not to engage"<br /><br />I know it's best not to engage. Believe me, I know. Thanks for the warning though.<br /><br />However, I object to the debunkers' incorrect accusations. I've seen the debunkers post a long series of _drastically_ wrong accusations and suspicions. I feel I need to say something. I feel I must dispute incorrect allegations, because it's the right thing to do.<br /><br />On wikipedia, I don't think anyone there (besides the debunkers) would have seriously believed the accusations the debunkers were making. I'm pretty sure that the administrators of wikipedia knew what to make of those accusations. The administrators knew perfectly well that the agendas the debunkers envisioned, weren't really happening. In fact, the administrators eventually voted unanimously to ban the main debunking author.<br /><br />On the debunking primal website, however, the debunkers try hard to come across as objective, disinterested social scientists who are just describing what they saw. They do not have the same hysterically aggrieved tone they had on wikipedia. It seems possible to me that someone might believe some of their accusations, especially since primal therapy is obscure and most people don't know what happens at the primal center.<br /><br />I think my article will correct the record.<br /><br />Best,<br />-ds<br />Desmond Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14258575975272485219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-60080536096087999012013-07-07T10:47:40.384-07:002013-07-07T10:47:40.384-07:00Hi,
I'm really not surprised to hear this bec...Hi,<br /><br />I'm really not surprised to hear this because it seems such a common phenomenon in human society as a whole, it's not just Primal. Though as usual I am shocked.<br /><br />-"When you deal with paranoids it is endless because everything you say is misinterpreted and twisted. Best not to engage"-. art<br /><br />My personal experience is that I have been a magnate for paranoids since I was small. But you know when "you leave feelings behind there is no end to the bullshit you can concoct"; (or believe).<br /><br />Sometimes, those who deeply need feelings and strongly desire passion find exactly that "but in another person". . . Consequently, from the inevitable 'conflict of interests' they may get a little 'burned' by the friction of relating with some one hotter than themselves, too passionate for the paranoiac; their own repression perhaps turns into a projection and then they must rail against passion and feelings, or despise it; or poo poo it in some way. . . Even though that's what they desperately wanted in the first place!<br /><br />It's a toddler's reaction to excessive control and it's a good sign when they say "NO". . . it's when they start setting maniacs up on pedestals that the trouble really starts.<br /><br />Many more merely 'tergivistate'. IE: they're just looking the other way.<br /><br />Some even acquire a new model for feelings from having associated with a person more passionate and feeling than themselves. There is a whole obsessive 'art' movement with 'artists & artizans' etc. We can buy the objet d'art which shows us feeling and passion from others but doesn't actually get the individual closer to who they really are. Though the 'dedicated follower of passion' (art) might believe it. They are 'happy' with their fraudulent new self, copied from someone else. Many of these have huge bookshelves filled with interesting books by Gombridge & Jung etc etc.<br /><br />Perhaps these people are the ones who 'need' help most because they are really feeling deep inside but they also have such terribly complex defenses. . . <br /><br />Paul G.<br /><br /> Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006514330039884557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-23689461689426144192013-07-07T04:53:42.892-07:002013-07-07T04:53:42.892-07:00Richard Atkin
Your support and confidence in me fe...Richard Atkin<br />Your support and confidence in me feels so good. We will see what the MRI will reveal. <br />Thank you. <br />Sieglinde<br /><br />Dr. Janov,<br />Thank you. <br />Sieglinde<br />S. W. Alexanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12087227301358286386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-81613021345220622162013-07-07T01:51:44.925-07:002013-07-07T01:51:44.925-07:00Desmond: Thanks so much for this comment. I do h...Desmond: Thanks so much for this comment. I do hope others will get on it. artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-77749379619748980002013-07-07T01:51:08.336-07:002013-07-07T01:51:08.336-07:00Sieglinde: I wish so too. art.Sieglinde: I wish so too. art.Arthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-23469973857436566452013-07-07T01:48:57.594-07:002013-07-07T01:48:57.594-07:00Desmond: When you deal with paramoids it is endles...Desmond: When you deal with paramoids it is endless because everything you say is misinterpreted and twisted. Best not to engage. artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-63296236802615131362013-07-05T00:48:45.174-07:002013-07-05T00:48:45.174-07:00Sort of off topic though obviously the imprint is ...Sort of off topic though obviously the imprint is trauma here is the UK's latest great way of treating the 1 in 4 teenagers who suffer from depression and worse in the UK. 1 in 4!!!!!<br /><br />No longer is Face to Face therapy even worth doing. It seem that many teenagers find it difficult to tell anyone they feel down and depressed. Has anyone thought they might have learned at a very early age that they were not allowed to complain, not allowed to get angry, not allowed to say No. Who to? Their Parents!<br /><br />http://www.mindfull.org/planespotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05315637682741508786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-7494162943527414622013-07-05T00:45:42.761-07:002013-07-05T00:45:42.761-07:00Hi All,
I just found this in Yahoo news:
-"...Hi All,<br /><br />I just found this in Yahoo news:<br /><br />-"Almost a third of children have considered or attempted suicide by the time they turn 16, according to a new survey.<br /><br /> Research for the new mental health charity MindFull also shows that 29% had self-harmed because they felt "down".<br /><br /> The charity is so alarmed by the finding that it is offering 11 to 17-year-olds immediate access to free online counselling with professionals and says it will be working with schools to educate young people on how to cope with mental health issues.<br /><br />Gestational and birth trauma the cause? Drugs given to their Mums?<br /><br />Yet again we have a demonstration of how repression in researchers is the cause of failing to seek out causes in their subjects. A complete failure to look back far enough to discover the terrifying truth.<br /><br />This thing about drugged neonates; we make non prescribed drugs illegal and call them dangerous, we control the prescription of legal drugs to adults and children because we know they can be dangerous. Great. But, we totally fail to see the danger of drugs on the unborn child and at birth.<br /><br />Could any one persuade these researchers to see how many of these suicidal children had mothers who were given strong pain killers / sedatives when pregnant with them. Is it difficult to research this?<br /><br />It's like the 'paddling kids' issue. It's illegal for me to slap you if you don't do what I want you to do and we all agree such behaviour is violence yet some of us still believe such coercive punishment is good for children. What is all this denial about childhood pain?<br /><br />Paul G. Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006514330039884557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-59092609798248839352013-07-05T00:36:39.777-07:002013-07-05T00:36:39.777-07:00Sieglinde, I have been reading about all of those...Sieglinde, I have been reading about all of those conditions. PSP sounds very serious. I'm sorry you have to deal with this awful news. I don't think you should worry about the statistics because I think your intelligence and willpower give you an advantage that will make you different to the statistics. Best wishes to you, Sieglinde.<br />Richard Richard Atkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13587935146938446604noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-83415930717746459182013-07-04T14:36:28.920-07:002013-07-04T14:36:28.920-07:00Hi All,
off topic
Check out Horizon on BBC I pla...Hi All,<br /><br />off topic<br /><br />Check out Horizon on BBC I player "What makes us Human" with Dr Alice Roberts.<br />Some very interesting stuff in there, as well as some 'old hat assumptions'.<br /><br />Paul G.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006514330039884557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-27717003885247506542013-07-04T09:42:43.475-07:002013-07-04T09:42:43.475-07:00Dr. Janov,
An MRI is scheduled for the PSP and I ...Dr. Janov,<br /><br />An MRI is scheduled for the PSP and I will see the neurosurgeon who did my Chiari Malformation. Blood tests are also scheduled. Maybe I'm lucky and results will tell me that some of these brain conditions are not active yet.<br /><br />However, my Spinal Stenosis is active since the age of 4. As a child and teenager I collapsed many times doing hard labor.<br /><br />While other children on School vacation went with their parents on holiday, my mother “rented” me out for field work. After I collapsed in the field, the farmers send me home. My mother didn’t care why I collapsed: All she did was yell, “you are good for nothing”. <br /><br />I wish I could come to the Primal Center now. <br /><br />Thanks for caring.<br /><br />SieglindeS. W. Alexanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12087227301358286386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-42876474038117455492013-07-04T07:02:19.767-07:002013-07-04T07:02:19.767-07:00Sieglinde
I am really sorry, too for you are such...Sieglinde<br /><br />I am really sorry, too for you are such a clever lady and really don't deserve all this! (How many of us get in life what we deserve, I wonder?) But still, you've had to be so brave and have endured so much through out your life from what you have told us. I really wish you a way to health and primal therapy and some happiness. Sandie.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-74523948957469594302013-07-04T04:37:48.920-07:002013-07-04T04:37:48.920-07:00To everyone at the primal center,
There is a webs...To everyone at the primal center,<br /><br />There is a website which exists to debunk primal therapy. That website was written by two former clients of Janov's primal center. The website includes allegations that primal therapy may be an authoritarian, abusive cult, and that abusive behaviors were routine at Janov's center.<br /><br />I believe that the allegations on that website of cult abuse are absolutely false. (Like I need to tell you guys that).<br /><br />I have encountered additional evidence which I believe undercuts' the debunkers credibility as witnesses. I have written an article about it, at the following URL:<br /><br />http://debunkingprimaldebunkers.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-debunkers-testimony-should-be.html<br /><br />I would appreciate if some of you would link to the above article, so that it will have a higher ranking in google search results. That way, readers will have that information available to them when evaluating the debunkers' credibility as witnesses. I think it would be best if my article appeared right below the debunking website on google search results.<br /><br />I should have defended the primal center against those incorrect allegations, earlier than this. I am truly sorry for that. I would have posted it earlier, however I was afraid that the debunkers would take revenge in some way, by suing me or something else. I got the impression from them that they are deeply vengeful and combative people.<br /><br />Best wishes,<br />-dessmith<br />Desmond Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14258575975272485219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-32625797473933918842013-07-04T02:49:46.038-07:002013-07-04T02:49:46.038-07:00Steven: It is exactly what we will look into. art...Steven: It is exactly what we will look into. artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-65565900145681818352013-07-04T02:45:14.222-07:002013-07-04T02:45:14.222-07:00Paul: good point. artPaul: good point. artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-25343480987957416832013-07-04T02:25:12.807-07:002013-07-04T02:25:12.807-07:00Sieglinde: Oh my! I am really sorry, I hope you ar...Sieglinde: Oh my! I am really sorry, I hope you are getting proper medical treatment for all this. artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-78925445098100639492013-07-02T00:21:14.089-07:002013-07-02T00:21:14.089-07:00Hi Frank,
It's amazing that 'forensic sci...Hi Frank,<br /><br />It's amazing that 'forensic science' absolutely looks for causes. . .<br /><br />But most other branches of science do not ?<br /><br />It's like a seriously bad joke isn't it ?<br /><br />I can only conclude that forensic scientists, like archaeologists and paleontologists aim at causes and origins because there is a payoff for finding them. It is their professional 'raison d'etre'.<br /><br />Unfortunately there is little payoff for most other branches of science to discover causes because the payoff is so frequently defined by their sources of funding and that 'motive' is profit. An extreme example of this was the involvement of 'science' in disproving the link between lung cancer and tobacco, for the tobacco industry. <br /><br />Perhaps we could set up a new investigative science of "Scientific Deceit". Researching and collating all those sciences following blind alleys and then analysing the evidence to discover the 'motives', the causes. . .<br /><br />We might even get some forensic scientists on board to help. I mean what would the Police make of scientists using public funding to fail to discover originating causes because of a 'conflict of interests'?<br /><br />That's deliberate fraud isn't it?<br /><br />Paul G.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006514330039884557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-89544303444858535922013-07-01T23:56:03.409-07:002013-07-01T23:56:03.409-07:00Hi,
I just spotted this article about post natal ...Hi,<br /><br />I just spotted this article about post natal depression:<br /><br />Professor Dimitris Grammatopoulos, who led the research at University Hospitals Coventry and Warwickshire NHS Trust, described the research as being "extremely important".<br /><br />He told Sky News: "There is evidence that if you can identify women at risk early you could treat early or introduce measures to prevent or stop the process of the disease."<br /><br />According to the news channel, a study of 200 pregnant women, published in the Journal of Psychiatric Research, found two molecular "signatures" in the genes that increased the risk of postnatal depression by up to five times"-.<br /><br />The actual treatment is not suggested but I suspect it would be antidepressants.<br /><br />Paul G.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006514330039884557noreply@blogger.com