tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post1890109098673097848..comments2024-02-11T18:16:53.445-08:00Comments on Janov's Reflections on the Human Condition: The Simple Truth is Revolutionary: On the Mystery of the Unconscious Part 2/2Arthur Janovhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16709863014923629409noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-43739667918765809752012-04-24T13:25:06.344-07:002012-04-24T13:25:06.344-07:00Hi planespotter,
I have recurring dreams and I ca...Hi planespotter,<br /><br />I have recurring dreams and I can't remember anything from before 5yrs, a few flashes of 4yrs.<br /><br />My parents have inadvertently revealed stuff to me, also I had sleep apnia experiences in childhood with 'visions' of 'certain faces' and all sorts. This blog and primal Theory is having a peculiar effect on my 'memory'.<br /><br />Sounds like you are ready for your three week isolation in Santa Monica.<br /><br />Me nearly too. Getting there. . .<br /><br />Paul G.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006514330039884557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-69551874469697481942012-04-23T14:42:19.547-07:002012-04-23T14:42:19.547-07:00A reader's poem:
"What if our religion wa...A reader's poem:<i><br />"What if our religion was each other<br />If our practice was our life<br />... If our prayer, our words<br />What if the temple was the Earth<br />If forests were our church<br />If holy water - the rivers,lakes and ocean<br />What if meditation was our relationships<br />If the Teacher was life<br />If the wisdom was self knowledge<br />If love was the centre of our being<br />"</i>Arthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-6793650311644908172012-04-23T01:10:58.635-07:002012-04-23T01:10:58.635-07:00Part 2
I think I have smashed many of my mirrors ...Part 2<br /><br />I think I have smashed many of my mirrors and many others are fading. I trust my body to tell me the truth and sometimes the clues are subtle but definite. If I suddenly start shallow breathing then I am in denial about something. If I keep up with a notion which is false eventually my body starts choking and coughing until I am almost sick and from that comes the real truth. I found that Alice Miller's book "The Body never lies" was a huge step towards understanding my real life. <br /><br />Because I probably had a load of 2nd line trauma burst through with some 1st line as well, I had Primal the wrong way round. I am going to LA because I feel I need to get to the 1st line and tidy up the 2nd. <br /><br />I have just finished "Sex and the Subconscious" and it brought up a great deal of anxiety etc. I wonder what that is about? I need to find out. One case study explains how a woman finds it much harder to believe what she is remembering if there is no corroborating evidence. That's the big one. Believing oneself when there is so little hard evidence. <br /><br />I have sense of anxiety about going to LA and know why that is. It is the right brain fighting with the left Brain. The left Brain does not want to go because it is scared about what it might see. My Right Brain knows that what it will see/feel and will be liberating (I feel the conflict as I write this).planespotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05315637682741508786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-60818450136395137842012-04-23T01:10:28.220-07:002012-04-23T01:10:28.220-07:00Part 1
Hi Paul
I still get these urges that ther...Part 1<br /><br />Hi Paul<br /><br />I still get these urges that there will be some kind of reconciliation with my Parents. How can that be when looked at? My Father sexually abused me from an early age as did my Mother. There is plenty of evidence that they did. Both of them were obviously abused (There's me forgiving them again!). My Mothers brother at least had the guts to tell me that his Mother used to get into bed for cuddles with him. Cuddles!? (He knew I would remember Christmas 1963) Poor guy is in denial. It's interesting that on the birth of his first grandchild he was also diagnosed with Prostate Cancer and rather than having it treated carefully had it ripped out so making himself impotent!!!! He can happily watch as his oldest Son has his Brain fried with anti physcotic drugs because he is still free and his Son is not believed. When my cousin (the Son) and I were kids we were standing having a pee and my cousin looked over and said "My Daddies willy is much bigger than yours". I was 11 so forgetting the growth I had to go through it is only recently that I realised the significance of that statement. How huge does an erect adult penis look to a 6 year old child? I have always had an insecurity about the size of my dick because I was confronted by adult erect penises and so that imprint is set from the viewpoint of a small child and neurotically translated into a size issue now. It also acts as a masking obsession to the reason why I have the insecurity. My Uncle refused to allow my cousin to give me his therapists number. I wonder why? My cousin's brother recently told me that the last time his Mother hugged him it sent shivers down his spine and in the next breath said he had gone off sex with women and yet he could not see the link having told me a couple of years ago he thought his Mother had abused him. It seems he had been going to see this therapist and had been told his Mother did not abuse him. Why? Because much of society still thinks that women cannot do such things. Total tosh! The therapist has retraumatised him. What was the therapist denying in his own past? I think in some ways it is harder for men to be able to deal with sexual abuse because there is still more denial that it happens to them so much and society expects them to take it on the chin and be a man. I am not dismissing what abuse does to either sex. As Art says in Sex and the Subconscious it is the most dreadfully damaging crime. What I am saying is that if a therapist is in denial of something from his past he is never going to be able to help a person deal with the same kind of thing. <br /><br />This leads me onto 3rd line delusional stories. One can become convinced one is Napoleon for example maybe due to a complete lack of power in one's childhood. When I first started my long journey to recovery I used to have dreams that I was personal friends with Tony Blair or the Queen or Mick Jagger. I think this was a neurotic projection of my own deep seated sense of inadequacy and it was my subconscious saying I did not have to feel like that. I tend to get paranoid on occasions. Not so much that I have to put silver foil on my head but enough to think that my clients are perhaps going to screw me over. Authority figures treating me with disdain and contempt i.e. my Parents. Once I recognise how manipulative and fucked up they are, the paranoia goes away and is replaced with the pain of mourning a lost life. What is easier to deal with, Paranoia or debilitating pain? Out of the frying pan into the fire!planespotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05315637682741508786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-62016130473209878322012-04-17T01:09:14.988-07:002012-04-17T01:09:14.988-07:00A facebook comment: "I think it is notable th...A facebook comment: <i>"I think it is notable that meditation and prayer which are forms of self imposed sensory deprivation or desensitization often precede religious hallucinations and out of sync infantile views such as being "one with the universe" or "egolessness". These conditions which are the upper mind trying to make sense of the lower and touched with a bit of anxiety are forms of psychosis not health and are often the results of such common religious practices. When such occurs these symptoms are seen today to be "Cult like", yet they result from common practices in most if not all religions. Odd that psychology today proposes similar techniques and endorses psychotherapy in the hands of the religious. These forces have also the force of law behind them, and so I often refer to the modern authorized psychotherapeutic community as "the state Church". This kind of delusional approach which also advocates punishment and reward as a means to correct plainly irrational and harmful behaviors is prevalent in our politics and laws world wide. This is also why I refer to the proper primal and rational viewpoint as a Primal Revolution, or the seed of it. What is so hard to understand about Primal Pain? Primal Pain is "pained need" needs that themselves have become painful to connect to or even discuss and which are covered over by a sense of protective anxiety. I ask you, "Why is it that creative, empathetic, or even truly objective thinking makes people "uncomfortable"? The answer is plain: These things help to meet our real needs and applying them uncovers pained need: Primal Pain. We symbolize the needs we cannot feel and so why is it hard to believe that such symbolism creates forms of addiction? Symbolic need can never satisfy. Also, why is it that the symbolism in religion when seen more objectively plainly indicates escapism from the very virtues it claims to espouse? Does this make you feel uncomfortable? You can try to escape or you can begin to connect to your feelings a bit, if you can. You might be glad you did. David Mitchel Stow"</i>Arthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-30429621821140236382012-04-17T01:02:53.543-07:002012-04-17T01:02:53.543-07:00Paul: He is in good hands. artPaul: He is in good hands. artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-75558159206903964092012-04-16T14:33:17.901-07:002012-04-16T14:33:17.901-07:00Hi Planespotter,
My parents have told me since I ...Hi Planespotter,<br /><br />My parents have told me since I became a young person that they love me but they don't like me. In reality this is actually the opposite; IE: we in our family are all lot like each other but there's little love. . . I have tried to love my parents at my expense on at least three occasions in my 52yrs and each time (1st line, 2nd line, 3rd line) I have been thwarted by the real truth. How could you send your children off to an abuser for 4 years if you loved them? Why do I continue to buy into their rhetoric?<br /><br />I have just been recently getting these strong insights into the nature of the 3rd line. It's really seductive. Anything can mean anything. In particular is the absolutely perfectly neurotic idea (but also perfectly wonderful ideal) that we must all be responsible for our own lives.<br /><br />Obviously all true humans want to be (which is most of us). . . But as children and as patients and as sick or disabled people. . . ? (That would appear to leave out very few of the human race would it not)?<br /><br />It's the cognitive ideal isn't it? A very simplistic philosophy; like we have two feet and the left boot must go on the left foot etc etc.<br /><br />This basic unit of cognitive philosophy (that we must all be responsible for our own lives) is really the worst slogan of all because it fixes a permanent boundary around every individual which does (in reality) not exist. As Frank implies: "It depends on who makes the rules". If the 1st line is traumatised and then the 2nd neglected then the 3rd line will be a hall of frightening mirrors. I hope your stay at the Clinic helps you find a way through to your true self. The one your folks evidently never knew.<br /><br />Mine neither.<br /><br />Paul G.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006514330039884557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-76132363904350811472012-04-16T01:06:22.032-07:002012-04-16T01:06:22.032-07:00Hi Paul
Thanks for that. Very interesting. Yes I ...Hi Paul<br /><br />Thanks for that. Very interesting. Yes I wake up and don't feel. I worry I don't love my wife. Probably to do with not feeling loved by my Mother in the middle of the night when she left me to cry out. I like the 1,2.3 3,2,1.<br /><br />I also empathise with the 1st and second line causing me to feel a failure which I am going through at the moment. Parents who made no pretense of their dislike of me. My Mother told me twice as a child that she did not like me. She is such a stupid woman.<br /><br />Good luck.planespotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05315637682741508786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-18833397604033820092012-04-15T15:29:56.501-07:002012-04-15T15:29:56.501-07:00Paul: Bravo and astute. I just did a training on ...Paul: Bravo and astute. I just did a training on this very subject. I will talk to France to see if we can release it. artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-55884728710237127362012-04-15T02:11:24.540-07:002012-04-15T02:11:24.540-07:00Hi planespotter,
having known about this waking u...Hi planespotter,<br /><br />having known about this waking up/ falling asleep phenomena 1-2-3, 3-2-1 for some time now I have become used to waking and noticing that immediately I 'feel' nothing.<br /><br />Then the griefs kick in. Then later still I have some 'choice' with the 3rd line kicking in (sometimes 3rd line adult griefs come out too). . . that is interesting because the 'choice' would seem to be quintessential to integration. . . or further repression. . . (do I let the feelings rise or do I push them down and get on with cutting the joints in the workshop, or maybe a bit of both)?<br /><br />I wonder if this 'nothing' I experience is the 'outside wall' of my 1st line repression. . . Fortunately, I now realise (thanks to comparing my condition to Primal Theory) that I have a whole series of double binds (mixed up 1st & 2nd line trauma, blockades) around that and only the Clinic could know how to help. I have become convinced that the three week 'isolation' combined with the support of experts is really all I have to begin the journey back into that 'nothing'. <br /><br />By the way, one way my 1st & 2nd line traumas 'push' my 3rd line is by compelling me to believe I am a failure as a father, as a grandfather, as a son, as a carpenter, as a business man and altogether as a human being. . .<br /><br />Thanks to this blog and all the contributions from all of you, I am no longer completely in the spell of this 'pressure' and strangely I am just about making a success of my profession despite being in the grip of the worst construction recession since the 30s.<br /><br />Paul G.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006514330039884557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-16618859281790478302012-04-12T00:36:18.611-07:002012-04-12T00:36:18.611-07:00Having read these two posts I then woke up in the ...Having read these two posts I then woke up in the middle of the night and got the whole issue of which part of the Brain wakes up first. Is it any wonder I feel anxious and nervous. That first line where I was left to cry out in the middle of the night.<br /><br />Perhaps this is what the Roman's called "The Wolf Hour".planespotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05315637682741508786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-26560817339227210182012-04-11T00:32:58.383-07:002012-04-11T00:32:58.383-07:00Art,
Cannot you write a few lines on "every...Art,<br /><br /><br />Cannot you write a few lines on "everything is of life and death"... a few sentences that death awaits us all... that we are far from being in control of it not to happen. A few lines that leads to reflections as/ even when the professional role in its purpose has the function to be immortal? <br /><br />Being a professional must be for the purpose of what I can and not something I claim the right to. <br />When we here in Sweden went into an economic crisis and many professionals lost their jobs the authorities were forced to organize an emergency department to assist all professional as suicide among them escalated.<br /><br />I know that everything you write is about life and death... what I mean is a few sentences of life and death that penetrates into the purpose of being professional? Professionalism has too much power over us… and we are lost in their need to maintain their professionalism.<br /><br />FrankFrankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02242354226308728116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-28000620400501756082012-04-10T12:33:23.367-07:002012-04-10T12:33:23.367-07:00Jan: Brilliant as usual. artJan: Brilliant as usual. artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-77301281570218376052012-04-09T11:18:55.803-07:002012-04-09T11:18:55.803-07:00Dr. Janov,
Besides following the evolutional brai...Dr. Janov,<br /><br />Besides following the evolutional brain structure, back to the imprint, this sentence “Our job is the opposite of most other approaches who cover over the pain,” divides JPT (Janov Primal Therapy) from all other therapies.<br /><br />My battle with other therapies was, I wanted to uncover my pain. Therapists however believed, that if I go back to uncover my traumatic experience, that I would “re-traumatize” myself. Being opposed to this unfounded theory I found no help and picked many fruitless battles and my psycho-records showed entries such as “non-compliant”, “defiant”. <br /><br />What the CT-cognitive therapist did not and would not understand is, that I have known (since early childhood) my brain and my body, and trust what I feel. <br /><br />Related: http://cigognenews.blogspot.com/2012/04/on-mystery-of-unconscious-part-22.htmlS. W. Alexanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12087227301358286386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-45080495966463980742012-04-09T02:16:50.687-07:002012-04-09T02:16:50.687-07:00Following the Evolution. Score of a Composition vs...Following the Evolution. Score of a Composition vs. Full Orchestra.<br /><br />“The Mystery of the Unconscious” provides a perfect background sketch of many of the essentials that for more than 40 years have affected me, when I have sought the help of evolution to come to grips with my epilepsy and my often sophisticated, yet painkilling and humiliating neuroses. Thanks to your tuition on the evolutionary 1,2,3 hierarchy in the brain, I have managed to develop new sides of myself. It has been a time-consuming process - much different than the “quick fix” that first attracted me in The Primal Scream and got me hooked.<br /><br />In approximately the rate at which I could feel and experience my pain below the level of conscious/awareness, at the same pace my neuroses dissolved, and my behavior became more adapted to real needs, as a result I could feel even more of the terror and anxiety that were imprinted, and the less I was drawn to acting guided by my earlier anxiety, etc. etc.. It has been a gradual evolutionary process over more than 40 years, which has resulted in the interesting fact that I have been motivated to develop my intellectual/scholarly brain to understand the context. As a bonus, my rose intellectual capacity, which increased with access to my feelings, helped me feel more authentic, and I find it more difficult to deceive myself and others.<br /><br />I have often wondered how I could best describe my therapy process. Only now when I read your Reflections I realize that the words; “lay back and allow the stab of anxiety to overtake us”, is the simple summary how I eventually became free from most of my anxiety and pain, which had its origin in a horrific birthing process.<br /><br />In the introduction, I compared your Relection, with a sketch. Behind all the great works of art (sic) in history, whether it be Michelangelo or Proust, was an infinite number of sketches, before we could enjoy their masterpieces. Reading today’s article, and understand it, is like taking part of the score of a musical composition. When we have reached the point where we can “lay down and allow that stab of anxiety to overtake us and make us free”, then we experience the composition played and conducted by a full orchestra.<br /><br />We can make ends meet!<br /><br />Jan JohnssonJan Åke Johnssonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15107966321155297159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-61748776393134725662012-04-09T01:57:55.420-07:002012-04-09T01:57:55.420-07:00Art,
I am one of those happy to know that I suffe...Art,<br /><br />I am one of those happy to know that I suffer through primal therapy ... "Gladly" suffer in order to begin my life where it left off... when it began. I'm with you in everything you do Art.<br /><br />FrankFrankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02242354226308728116noreply@blogger.com