tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post1412098041574733918..comments2024-02-11T18:16:53.445-08:00Comments on Janov's Reflections on the Human Condition: The Simple Truth is Revolutionary: More on Attention Deficit DisorderArthur Janovhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16709863014923629409noreply@blogger.comBlogger58125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-18500097876307119762011-03-25T14:27:17.580-07:002011-03-25T14:27:17.580-07:00PG: I may use this in my book if it is OK.Very as...PG: I may use this in my book if it is OK.Very astute. AJArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-25372010615508852092011-02-03T10:29:10.657-08:002011-02-03T10:29:10.657-08:00Janne: Did you see the small piece I wrote in 2008...Janne: Did you see the small piece I wrote in 2008? <a href="http://cigognenews.blogspot.com/2008/07/there-is-new-book-out-by-specialist-in.html" rel="nofollow">http://cigognenews.blogspot.com/2008/07/there-is-new-book-out-by-specialist-in.html</a><br />AJ.Arthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-23182080639929808172011-02-02T08:25:59.771-08:002011-02-02T08:25:59.771-08:00Hello there, I hope you read these older comments ...Hello there, I hope you read these older comments also.<br /><br />I was diagnosed as ADD some years ago (28 now), got meds for it and because some of the problems stayed - mainly social ones - I went for psychodynamic therapy for three years. At this time I learned a lot. As my therapist stated, three years was so brief time, implementing truthfully that more would have been useful. I agree. That kind of relationship sure is something one wouldn't want to terminate - in good and bad.<br /><br />During this time, with the help of add-medicine, I did quite a lot of notions in awareness - with and without going for it specifically. Sort of an obsession of mine which keeps me away from being here & now.<br /><br />Bit about year ago I started to get the kind of emotional and physical reactions that you describe in your Primal Scream (which I just now finished, after 2 months of reading). I found myself having kind of an growing wish and urge to let some part of me (ie. my body) to let go and do it's on thing - which was sudden muscular twitch, resulting in relieved position. For example, as I laid on my training mat, I could end up on contracting my other leg and to strech other side of my upper body and arm and neck (this was purely imagined example). The reaction was and was not spontaneous, just as your patients described that they could stop it if they wanted, but did not want to do that. I kind of sense the movement beforehand as if the system in brains which will execute it is already wiring up and kind of ready for it - like engine ready humming and just waiting for the gas pedal to let it loose.<br /><br />This event contains emotions and kind of non-describable flash images, for example I might have strong painful feelings towards some situations that had happened in the past or the behavior of my parents, as if I'd recall my memory of that feeling. But this ain't so easy part to catch, it's more easy to let some anxious feeling come to me, than to be able to identify it and keep it on hold in thought after the twich. It's more like only the memory of it that prevails, like that I could think to myself "Damn, that was tough thing to feel (or more likely, to not feel!) in that time, in that age, in that situation".<br /><br />I've come into suspect that this is something similar to your patients reactions. Could you spare your views?<br /><br /><br />On the notion of ADD and neuroses, your theory in Primal Scream is the most convincing so far. It was true pleasure for my egoistic self to read it and note how your observations and notes were similar to mine - although mine were not consistent but only bits and suspects here and there. I've had a huge portion of the neurotic ways adult ADD's compensate, for some reason I've like resolved one and developed a new one and gone through that cycle for half of my life, and comparing to this I must say practically all written in that book of yours makes valid sense.<br /><br />Especially the notion that being here & now requires the full feeling which is prevented by suppressed pains. That's something that is missed in the current teachings of western gymnastic-yoga, meditation and affiliated "philosophies" that come in the sale.<br /><br /><br />I'm currently on my first year of studying to become a kind of mental health / attention deficit disorder - focused social worker and I'm looking forward to seek ways to synthesize this theoretic perspective of yours, along some other therapeutic methods, to the future way of providing help to young adults here in Finland. The rates of adhd, add and anxiousness & depression among youngsters, adolescents and young adults are peaking here. Steadily. And seeing how "adults" are acting with their children, the reasons are quite obvious but for those who wish not to see it. For religious and historical reasons, the mothers and their child-parent relationships are quite sacred here, something you don't poke to. So it's gonna be one individual at the time.. as it should be, I suppose.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09345391831027418533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-1728169256365625392010-12-28T20:39:33.296-08:002010-12-28T20:39:33.296-08:00Hi Andrew!
One kind of Jealousy to me is fear! We...Hi Andrew!<br />One kind of Jealousy to me is fear! We fear that we will lose someone. We fear that someone else is going to take what we want. Some of it is based in insecurity. Some of it is about losing control of a situation. Losing control is definitely a primal feeling and when it comes to the fore, it causes people to act, over-react and go crazy.<br /><br />The other jealousy is seeing something good happen to someone. But I am inclined to think this is related to lack and want. I know of a person whose identity Iwill shield for his sake, who lacked so much as a child, that he can not see anything good happen to anyone since he never saw anything he truly wanted. So because he did not get what he wanted, he begrudges seeing anyone get anything at all.<br /><br />Jealousy at its worst. Deprivation in the early days can be a devastating thing. One thing for sure, he who acts on irrational impulses is a hell to deal with. These are among those who are mean spirited and begrudge anything to anyone. The more they feel lack, the more crazy and mean they become.<br /><br />They are often hard to distinguish from psychopaths since the 2 so often has so much in common and very little to separate them. Me thinks it possible that you still got a lot of humanity and compassion so that you can recognize these things and do not like them. Count me in, too ;-)apollohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02040184843184207525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-35979861009179577902010-12-27T19:41:32.349-08:002010-12-27T19:41:32.349-08:00Thank you Apollo,
Jealousy is strange. Why should...Thank you Apollo,<br /><br />Jealousy is strange. Why should we want to hurt someone just because they have something we want? Maybe you are right that that's the basis of it. But what is the ultimate basis of jealousy? Maybe it's an act of avoiding the (direct) pain of feeling that you have (catastrophically) missed out...which the individual who "has so much" is threatening to trigger?? <br /><br />Jealousy, as a function, sounds very unconscious regardless, due to its intrinsic irrationality.<br /><br />--I'm also interested in the need to control others if anyone wants to comment.Andrew D Atkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04492591375757227409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-7205214744140387932010-12-27T00:41:47.940-08:002010-12-27T00:41:47.940-08:00Jan: Would you rather be in the dark about other ...Jan: Would you rather be in the dark about other approaches? Doesn't someone have to yell, "The emperor has no clothes!?" If you limit me to only positive things then those other individuals will do therapies that can only hurt them. Try discussing psychoanalysis while being totally positive. The negativity is what others are doing in the name of mental health. It sounds like the old religious canard, "If you can't say something nice don't say anything." AJArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-22686126536007185242010-12-27T00:39:23.744-08:002010-12-27T00:39:23.744-08:00PG: The mind is not still because it is being stim...PG: The mind is not still because it is being stimulated all of the time from inside. We need to deal with the source of the agitation. Otherwise, we are just looking for caps on the feeling. Art Janov.Arthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-29275489218619704752010-12-23T21:30:37.629-08:002010-12-23T21:30:37.629-08:00Andrew, I think what you are describing is jealous...Andrew, I think what you are describing is jealousy, right? Hating seeing others happy, right? I'll take a stab at it. Jealousy is quite the common trait, wouldn't you say? But we can try to bring it to a primal level.<br /><br />I guess I see it a lot like the Dog Whisperer on Nat Geo. Caesar gets the dogs into the right frame of mind before he can change behavior. A person can not rationally think when they are in a rage or out of control.<br /><br />Even in PT, one has to be brought within the primal zone, being either above it or below it. They have to be ready to feel and let feeling take place. It might require some drugs at first. there has to be a starting point. Once a pain is released, then they can start relating more to the actual present.<br /><br />Hurtful people? My father is angry at the world and everyone in it because he did not get what he wanted when young. It is an anger from long ago imposing itself on a completely unrelated time and circumstance. But the anger is real, though from the past. but it does not work in the present without being released in the proper way (feeling it). I think this is why some people are nasty and hateful. Their anger is misplaced. They are very frustrated and they know not why. They just swing at the first thing that comes along. Its usually whoever is closest to them at the moment. Ask me how I know ;-)<br /><br />Same at work or anywhere. they are mad inside and it comes outside on those those poor unsuspecting souls who wonder in bewilderment as to why they are on the receiving end. They just happened to be in the right place at the right time.<br /><br />As you can see by this point, PT would release all that anger inside over time, so that they would not want to strike out blindly. ah, but those psychopaths, they are way beyond this. Damaged and broken, they can be vicious or worse, cold and calculating. No win there. But the difference is Jealousy and anger can still be resolved but damaged feeling and reading centers eliminate any chance of correction by PT.<br /><br />that's my best shot, for what its worth.apollohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02040184843184207525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-53692723969962167152010-12-23T13:32:41.839-08:002010-12-23T13:32:41.839-08:00Richard: I don;t do cocktail parties, nor do I dri...Richard: I don;t do cocktail parties, nor do I drink so someone else will have to take over. AJArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-46415416614322457962010-12-23T13:31:43.946-08:002010-12-23T13:31:43.946-08:00on Andrew's post: Anyone want to try? AJon Andrew's post: Anyone want to try? AJArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-41850007974378191602010-12-23T06:15:27.507-08:002010-12-23T06:15:27.507-08:00And my response:
I don't get it. Did you go t...And my response: <br />I don't get it. Did you go to some center? AJArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-47334783578773073652010-12-23T06:09:05.646-08:002010-12-23T06:09:05.646-08:00Another email comment:
"Alright, I'm done...Another email comment:<br /><i>"Alright, I'm done. You started Primal when you were a younger man in a different part of your life. "Seasons In A Mans Life" is a study of ten-thousand men and the arc of their lives...the changes they go through, the areas of interest that consume them and how it changes through the years. The book "what color is your parachute" was based on it. The study is longitunidnal and many many pages long over many many years. So you were young and had to make your bones. Unfortunately in your ferver I got caught up in the wake of your passion and over the years got really fu-ked-up...sacrificing minimum a hundred grand and the women who loved me..plus a house and a pending marriage to the daughter of the president of the American Political Science Association in order to remain true to the percepts of Primal. We were going to do Primal together just before the marriage and she backed out at the last minute...from the Primal Part. So I left her. They had the entire top floor of the LA Hilton booked for us. Honest Art, you are reading the words of one of the biggest idiots on earth. I was a true believer...Eric Hoffer style. Not much to say at this point. My life cannot be relived. I know one hell of a lot. At 65 and disabled now with ten-twenty grand and the usual storage locker full of great solutions to societies problems and no strength left nor any honey to message my back leaves me in a rotten place. If it were just not for the back pain I would't mind...I could still make my moves...but the pain...the medication...all the sh-t just leaves me with a dismal prognosis. I'm a fighter like you're a fighter. A Professor from UCI once told me...he was a big deal Dr. of some sort...I forget..that there was no cure for a wasted life. The Primal thing simply wasted a lot of my life. I wish it were different. No hard feelings though...it was my choice. Take care. "</i>Arthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-49735203746951251652010-12-22T01:28:00.944-08:002010-12-22T01:28:00.944-08:00Jack: Everyone seems to be looking for someone ...Jack: Everyone seems to be looking for someone who has the secret to life and to living. It does not exist. no one knows any more about you than you. No one has the secret to anything because life is not a problem to be solved. It is simply something we live. artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-6375608011545284802010-12-22T01:17:59.097-08:002010-12-22T01:17:59.097-08:00Emanuel: I think she wrote that when she as twelv...Emanuel: I think she wrote that when she as twelve. She was in my opinion a true genius. She is missed every day terribly. I could have taken lessons from her about how to write. artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-4437394111815696922010-12-22T01:15:45.770-08:002010-12-22T01:15:45.770-08:00Frank: I am afraid my idea fell because we ran out...Frank: I am afraid my idea fell because we ran out of funds from the Foundation so we do not have the money to carry it out. I wanted to have a meeting at our center in Santa Monica but that would be impossible for most of you due to money problems. I am not sure what to do but I am open to suggestions. Art janovArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-520063704751358332010-12-22T01:14:30.631-08:002010-12-22T01:14:30.631-08:00Richard: I am saying that I am 86, been in practic...Richard: I am saying that I am 86, been in practice for a straight 60 years and I shall not go on forever. AJArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-66634744858959013402010-12-21T18:02:48.972-08:002010-12-21T18:02:48.972-08:00Art, you talked about giving uppers to a patient w...Art, you talked about giving uppers to a patient who is too down, and downers to a patient who is too up, to move him/her closer to the feeling zone.<br />If we can push some therapists/scientists/politicians closer to their feelings, they might be more willing to listen to your ideas.<br />Perhaps we can convince some of them to take the appropriate uppers or downers for a while. If we tell them the drugs are harmless, and imply that the drugs are enjoyable, some of them might be willing to do the "experiment".<br />I'm not talking about a million-dollar double blind study. I'm talking about a friendly chat at a cocktail party...which leads to a few pills exchanging hands.Richard Atkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13587935146938446604noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-73411837575172055602010-12-21T16:23:40.143-08:002010-12-21T16:23:40.143-08:00Hi Art,
Just a suggestion; I would be interested ...Hi Art,<br /><br />Just a suggestion; I would be interested to see your thoughts on "control freaks"...I would like to understand why people have the emotional need to control others. So just a post suggestion. <br />I also think controlling-type people (and 'bitter' people) don't like seeing real happiness in others - I think some neurotics really take pain, not pleasure, in other peoples happiness and even try to suppress it if they can. But I'm not sure. Again, it's a just a future post suggestion that I would be interested in if you've got something to say on it.Andrew D Atkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04492591375757227409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-64016612904383144392010-12-21T14:48:03.945-08:002010-12-21T14:48:03.945-08:00Hi Art,
I think we're say ing the same thing b...Hi Art,<br />I think we're say ing the same thing but I'm using too many words to ask a simple question! Meditation is not an alternative to re-living. Though I am sort of asking what use it is beyond a source of stilling the mind?<br /><br />I have found that as long as my intention is to search for memories and feelings then meditation (stilling of the mind) can help through relaxing other obstructing mental blockades or defences. It seems to be the accompanying "Spiritual Belief Systems" that are obstuctive as they can decieve one into believing there is an alternative to feeling hurt. Avoidance of pain by being blissed out instead, in a crisis when all is going "tits up" meditation is a useful technique. I dunno, I'm just a potential patient hoping for a future! Hope I havn't warped my mind with too much meditiation. . .<br /><br />PG.<br /><br />Assembling a trauma history is not easy if one is constantly in a stressed hall of mirrors.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006514330039884557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-66438980102609754902010-12-21T06:09:28.435-08:002010-12-21T06:09:28.435-08:00Hi Art ,even my poetic amnesia did not completely ...Hi Art ,even my poetic amnesia did not completely mess up the beauty and artistic value of her poem...!<br />My only excuse: decades are a very long time and my knowing by heart is rather limited.<br />Here we are again:<br />Take me into the shelter of your love<br />Hold me until you`ve secured me .<br />Reach me by yourself.<br />Take where my feelings <br />have placed me<br />and share yourself with me.<br />Give me your heartbeat<br />in rhythm with mine.<br />Mix dreams with me.<br />I love your way<br />I love your mind,I love your face<br />I love your body.<br />How can I keep myself from loving You?<br /> Ellen :YOU ARE AN ARTIST! <br />Yours emanuelemanuelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01380331335118885426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-78568931154292671202010-12-20T13:57:50.658-08:002010-12-20T13:57:50.658-08:00Woodygatral: I once did some meditating; "st...Woodygatral: I once did some meditating; "stilling the mind" and was around many people practicing it, and still am. It seems like many other 'recommendations', something you have to keep up. That, to me, doesn't seem natural. If there is a state of being beyond "the chattering mind", it is simply feeling; 24/7, IMO. There is no-way, as I see it, to practice being in a feeling state; you either are are you are not. Being in a feeling state of mind all the time is being feeling-full.<br /><br />Trevor: No sure if your comment was 'tongue in cheek' or what? but I am tempted to respond to you. It seems to me you are looking for some means to 'nirvana', something idealistic, some answer-all. Mankind has been on this quest for several millenia and seemingly not found it, certainly not on a mass scale for most of us. To me, "the problem" is simple:- NEUROSIS. <br /><br />What might a non-neurotic (feeling-full) existence be like? Having spent the last 30 years doing Primal Therapy has given me some insight, but that doesn't mean I'm totally feeling-full--the damage was too severe. It is my contention that there are NO fully feeling-full humans so there are NO human guides, but looking at the other creatures I get a sense of what it could be like. It is not some 'utopia' (whatever utopia is supposed to be) since there would still be sadness, anger, fear and occasionally happiness, but the striving for perpetual contentment would be boring; life's not like that; it's an ever state of flux. <br /><br />We need to seek the SIMPLICITY and for my money that simplicity was revealed when this guy in Los Angeles discovered Primal Pain then ingeniously formulated a theory based on it. All else, from there-on-in is blah blah blah. Trevor, I read your comment, but to me it was just more blah blah blah. Toooooooo complicated.Jack Waddingtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06427501529242639591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-65023035754552724722010-12-20T04:54:38.423-08:002010-12-20T04:54:38.423-08:00Hi Art ,I do not know , whether I can find this is...Hi Art ,I do not know , whether I can find this issue (I am am a "messie" with 1200 books ..) but I`ll try in the weeks to come ...If You want all the other poems therein I could copy them and send them via mail ... Lover goes like this:<br />Take me into the shelter of Your love<br />hold me until You`ve secured me<br />keep Your heartbeats in rythme with mine<br />mix dreams together<br />I love Your face<br />I love way <br />I love Your body<br />How can I keep myself from loving You?<br /><br />Hopefully I could be helpful!? Yours emanuelemanuelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01380331335118885426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-52774631882590362802010-12-20T02:28:17.029-08:002010-12-20T02:28:17.029-08:00During this last summer you wrote about an idea yo...During this last summer you wrote about an idea you had... an idea that you didn’t presented in detail ... which was expected later to shed... it was about those who could not come to The Primal center because of financial reasons… you wrote something like "you who do not have the economic means to come to The Primal Center… please get in touch I have an idea"<br />Art<br /><br />Aida Castaneda and Isabella Anderson... Aidas daughter and myself responded to this "idea"? But have not heard anything since. Isabella has privious submitted her application to The Center with photo...biography and the on-line questionnaire but not heard anything further about it… she has sent that application on two occasions.<br /><br />FrankFrankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02242354226308728116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-54363257667624587322010-12-20T01:37:35.730-08:002010-12-20T01:37:35.730-08:00PG: Look it is simple. If you know that past exp...PG: Look it is simple. If you know that past experience even in the womb, leave a trace, an imprint, that affects the rest of your life than you have to deal with your history no matter how many gyrations you go through such as meditation. There is no other secret, no free lunch. We are historic beings, Period! AJ. Meditation is largely nonsense in this context, Capeche?Arthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-16184891671086729402010-12-20T01:36:44.043-08:002010-12-20T01:36:44.043-08:00Frank. I do not know what you are saying and I do...Frank. I do not know what you are saying and I do not know who is Aida. You need to be clearer. Art JanovArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.com