tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post8962661783396332847..comments2024-02-11T18:16:53.445-08:00Comments on Janov's Reflections on the Human Condition: The Simple Truth is Revolutionary: More on Language as AnesthesiaArthur Janovhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16709863014923629409noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-53748615733464352212011-01-14T23:30:46.563-08:002011-01-14T23:30:46.563-08:00Marco,
I am under the impression from what Art ha...Marco,<br /><br />I am under the impression from what Art has written that Michael Holden understood primal theory/therapy, but not himself.<br /><br />As to you question: "why do you think he became such a fanatical born-again Christian?"...<br /><br />I, personally, would guess the answer is here:<br /><br />http://cigognenews.blogspot.com/2010/11/conversion-experience.htmlAndrew D Atkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04492591375757227409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-10866278110644117052011-01-14T00:34:47.028-08:002011-01-14T00:34:47.028-08:00A comment from Marco I deleted by mistake:
"
...A comment from Marco I deleted by mistake:<br />"<i><br />Dr Janov: You say you threw out 50 cartons of your writings? Considering how important your writings are I beleive, is that wise? Surely there must be storage space somewhere!<br /><br /><br /><br />And with respect to Mr Holden, why do you think he became such a fanatical born-again Christian? I read a speech he gave in his Christian period, and, well, it was just plain weird. I must say that I do appreciate what he contributed to your Primal Man book, even if I did not understand everything he wrote due to a lack of knowledge in neurology.You two outdid yourselves in that book: it is just so solid scientifically. If people don't get it after reading that great book, there is no hope they will ever get it, in my opinion. "</i>Arthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-42951280290781436802011-01-12T11:47:51.226-08:002011-01-12T11:47:51.226-08:00Jack,
The thinking mind is a multi-purpose tool. ...Jack,<br /><br />The thinking mind is a multi-purpose tool. It helps us to solve problems and it helps us to moderate, control and repress feelings. Its evolution would have been driven by all its advantages - the need to repress being only one of them.Andrew D Atkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04492591375757227409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-41103465625375368922011-01-12T11:16:46.201-08:002011-01-12T11:16:46.201-08:00Richard, let me tell you a story. I went throug...Richard, let me tell you a story. I went through the whole process, went to Washington D.C. to explain my work and then the NIMH came out to see me. One man said to me about a woman writhing on the floor, crying her eyes out, "Why is she showing her ass like that?" Then I knew all was lost. I was trying to explain the moon to someone who never knew about planets. I tried a couple more times but to no avail. art janov. We should try again but It cannot be me. We need younger ones with much energy and less deception.Arthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-15681976957029200822011-01-11T18:26:43.735-08:002011-01-11T18:26:43.735-08:00Art, the NIMH says you must submit an application ...Art, the NIMH says you must submit an application for funding, and the peer reviewers will decide whether you should get funding or not.<br />If your scientific observations cannot be accurately or fully presented because of the restrictions in their application requirements, I wish you would tell me this.....or give me a reason why you no longer bother with these types of applications, if that is the case.<br />If it's a long story and you don't want to go through the tedium of explaining it to me, then let me know and I will get off your back. ok?<br />I need a better understanding of the Primal Center's relationship with the NIMH and other authorities so I can see how to form the right argument when writing to them. Then, if I still can't get through to them, I will give up and try something different.<br />You say they will never listen, and I guess you are probably right, but I would like to find out for myself.Richard Atkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13587935146938446604noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-44135852586803004562011-01-11T14:56:42.579-08:002011-01-11T14:56:42.579-08:00In evolutionary terms "thinking" is a re...In evolutionary terms "thinking" is a recent development and ... IMO was developed to repress feelings. We are basically a feeling creature and our ability to think is NOT an advanced state of being, but rather implies we are an inferior creature, hence, we play killing one another on a thinking pretext to avoid our own pain. Pain, from the child-rearing practices since we learned to 'think'. QED JackJack Waddingtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06427501529242639591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-6245627201624296032011-01-11T13:45:12.707-08:002011-01-11T13:45:12.707-08:00And my response to it:
I do know Siegel's work...And my response to it:<br />I do know Siegel's work and I invited him to come see what we do. No thanks. He has a hint of what to do but cannot do it all the way. How sad for him and for his patients. artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-86976305448963818662011-01-11T13:44:17.604-08:002011-01-11T13:44:17.604-08:00An email comment:
"Art, thank you again! I ...An email comment: <br /><i>"Art, thank you again! I so appreciate your last four sentences in this most recent blog<br />about how just a cursory familiarity with neurology will "tell us the prefrontal area has a major role in blocking feelings.<br />How on earth can we enlist it for change?" I'm sure, therefore, you're familiar with the work of Dan Siegel<br />and his celebrating the idea that meditation thickens the prefrontal cortex. He recounts in the Mindful Brain how he's away on his first meditational retreat and connects with this feeling about his mother and cries deeply...yet he never demonstrates a curiosity as to what the experience is about neurologicaly!! Further irony--in recounting some case<br />histories in Mindsight, he describes himself facilitating a number of patients into deep grieiving over childhood stuff<br />and still doesn't really get what's happening. You know, it's been 38 years since I started therapy on Almont Street<br />and for all I have felt and grown and learned, it still occasionally blows my mind that very smart (high IQ/lowEQ) people get so close to the truth and then veer sharply away from it. I've been telling my clients (a lot of very close coaching with leaders of organizations in retreat formats) "we can't think our way out of what we were wounded into" and this has made total sense to every last one of them. Seems so simple, doesn't it? But as you say in many different ways, denial is insidious and pervasive. Once again, I'm so grateful for the work you have done on this earth and that I had a chance to benefit first-hand from it...and still am. "</i>Arthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-72168173985789962102011-01-11T13:29:04.977-08:002011-01-11T13:29:04.977-08:00Frank: It is an idea we are kicking around as we a...Frank: It is an idea we are kicking around as we are finishing the legacy program where all of our years of training will be on DVD's and can be bought from us. AJArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-35458661782759353442011-01-11T02:56:15.350-08:002011-01-11T02:56:15.350-08:00Art
The training... can’t that be done over the w...Art<br /><br />The training... can’t that be done over the web for those you feel ready to participate? It might be a winning formula. Broadcast alive and recorded for those who currently can’t participate ... and for those who currently can’t get part of it by being members... members of this training over the web?<br /><br />FrankFrankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02242354226308728116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-89854480366430764342011-01-10T17:03:08.198-08:002011-01-10T17:03:08.198-08:00Emma, I love your idea of conferencing. I persona...Emma, I love your idea of conferencing. I personally would prefer to use Skype because it has free video-calling for up to ten people. <br /><br />But if more than ten people want to talk, the service you suggested, with toll charges, might be better, although it looks like they require you to occasionally fill out surveys and stuff otherwise they terminate your account.<br /><br />We would all have to agree on the best conferencing tool and download it. Everyone is welcome to email me, stating your preferred choice, and I will get back to you with the results.Richard Atkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13587935146938446604noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-72006910510513459772011-01-10T12:25:52.069-08:002011-01-10T12:25:52.069-08:00Emma: Hey thanks. We are doing training every we...Emma: Hey thanks. We are doing training every week starting now. It is open to those who want to learn more about it and for future therapists. art janovArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-65761888183994061792011-01-10T01:28:57.893-08:002011-01-10T01:28:57.893-08:00Sig. Rossi,
To have someone to understand somethi...Sig. Rossi,<br /><br />To have someone to understand something when something is what he do to not "understand"... feel what all is about… that is an equation like Einstein’s relativity. To have someone to “understand” that shyness… anxiety and depression can be explained like… the pain missing love causes is shyness anxiety and depression which means that our love is impossible to experience without feeling that pain… and we by that can begin to “understand” that something is wrong. The pain shyness causes is tremendous… more than a child can bear... it’s a question of life and death in the end… or the right term… the beginning of our life.<br /><br />FrankFrankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02242354226308728116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-59845797351229641762011-01-09T12:43:18.880-08:002011-01-09T12:43:18.880-08:00Gabrio: It has been my contention for some time, ...Gabrio: It has been my contention for some time, that we are approaching the "Primal Contention" form the wrong angle. Primal Therapy is a therapeutic process that Art and others have claimed to be dangerous in the wrong hands and ill-trained. I did 30 years of this therapy and agree with that pitfall 100%, but the discovery of Primal Pain offers another way to approach implimentation:- "PREVENTION". Because of the discovery it should be possible to see a way of preventing neurosis in the children of tomorrow. If it can be demonstrated just how NEUROSIS is stifling human life and the way we humans choose to live. I think any number of disciplines might easily look into that notion and see a way to prevent (slowly perhaps) this debilitating disease for the future of mankind. <br /><br />Primal Therapy is attempting to "mend" the already damaged. Promoting therapy is long, arduous and contentious Primal Theory on the other hand, could much more easily be stated to see a way to PREVENT the damage in the first place. It is extremely simple to comprehend. I have stated it briefly in 1695 words on 10 pages that I feel even older children could understand.<br /><br />JackJack Waddingtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06427501529242639591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-83380648492829723302011-01-09T10:11:52.310-08:002011-01-09T10:11:52.310-08:00I just found this website which could possibly ena...I just found this website which could possibly enable people to raise money for therapy if done creatively. Even research??? www.indiegogo.com<br /><br />I think 100's of people would do the trick in a letter writing campaign. This could be quite effectively organised through facebook. It would be easier after meeting/talking and nominating someone as a leader. You can easily talk with many people at once all over the world with software such as www.freeconferencecall.com. A rough letter could be drafted providing a template with statistics etc and then individuals could fill in personal stories and how therapy has changed their lives. <br /><br />One other thing that I would love:<br />I often struggle to explain the therapy to non-primal type people. Would it be possible to develop an intensive course (ideally in the summer!) where people could learn the theory of the therapy and how to explain it scientifically (not in order to be therapists - just to have a more in-depth understanding). This would be an ideal ground for hatching these sorts of ideas as well.Emmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03324087416364183818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-15997775561443746402011-01-09T02:59:58.847-08:002011-01-09T02:59:58.847-08:00I do not think anyone will get anywhere trying to ...I do not think anyone will get anywhere trying to enlighten academia, professionals or orthodoxy. Those are dead ends and I say that because if you fully understood their motives and agenda, you would realize they often know the truth and want nothing to do with it since it conflicts with their dreams and goals.<br /><br />It must be the little people, average people, people not accepted by academia or the status quo. People who do not fit in. Square pegs in round holes type people. These are the ones that must be reached and won over, if that were possible. In numbers, they can get through to others.<br /><br />Avoid any path leading to the Status Quo gate keepers. they are the ones that suppress and persecute. Persecution takes many forms. It is not just attack. Sometimes it is nothing more than ignoring something or denying it any publicity or giving it any respect or sullying its reputation.apollohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02040184843184207525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-10061441877873142232011-01-08T09:22:30.249-08:002011-01-08T09:22:30.249-08:00Just an idea...it might be usefull to use former p...Just an idea...it might be usefull to use former patients testimonial with a recorded case (a recorded medical file?) in a systematical way.<br />Let's say 50 former patients willing to help. <br />Just by using their medical history and how they make it nowadays (ex. a former drug user or somebody with a severe disease). No additionnal and expensive scientific survey needed,just people writing how the therapy changed their life.<br /><br />Another side of the problem is that most people on this blog (including me) are "outsiders" with no first hand experience with A. Janov's work and/or treatment.<br />When Dr Janov says that therapists usually talk to the wrong brain in their patients, we deal with the same problem when trying to convince the scientific community: even in front of facts and figures, they won't "feel it".<br />The liviest part of A. Janov and France's work is the therapists they have trained and keep on training. If they failed at passing the "right state of mind" nobody will keep on going in the right direction, scientific studies/papers or not.Yannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806913165189012161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-3127226941058241582011-01-08T05:09:22.391-08:002011-01-08T05:09:22.391-08:00Jack: even if there was such a ladder, how long is...Jack: even if there was such a ladder, how long is it? And what will you do when you reach the top rung? All the ones who reach the top seem to have the greatest instability. <br /><br />Thruth is self-evident, one needs to open the eyes to see it: as an egg will hatch when the time is ripe, so will human consciousness. <br /><br />Those who are ready to admit to be lost in the labirinth of the mind will be ready to accept help and each one has the inner knowledge to recognise what is true guidance. To relax in what "is" seems to be the key. Greetings from Munich, Germany. Gabrio (teacher, sculptor)Sig. Rossihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08753636843957147628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-33201144085988743652011-01-08T03:11:15.628-08:002011-01-08T03:11:15.628-08:00Art
You all said what there is to tell about the ...Art<br /><br />You all said what there is to tell about the possibility for Primal Therapy to get a foothold ... it is almost impossible.<br />I can’t see other than a legal process must take place for a worldly commitment to enabling… a legal process with all what there is to prove PT. I do think the cost would be of a minimum compared with now going on… with all of us badgering instead of doing our therapy. <br />Art… just do that… get the best of help and let us pay what we can?<br /><br />FrankFrankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02242354226308728116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-46864829108957560482011-01-07T12:28:10.894-08:002011-01-07T12:28:10.894-08:00Richard; You suggest "...... that we all wri...Richard; You suggest "...... that we all write to the director of the National Institute of Mental Health. " If you can garner several thousands to write to The National Institute of Mental Health you just might get someones ear, but getting that many people from the Primal Community is in itself a major task, if YOU were willing to take-it-on. There are billions of ideas-men out there, but I doubt there's even thousands willing 'to-take-it-on'. Therein is the rub. Art knows all about just this. He wrote a best seller, then when every "Tom Dick & Harry" with a degree in psychology wanted to jump-on-the-bandwagon, Art put a stop to it--and for good reason, foreseeing the potential danger of all those guys from reading one book, wanting to practice this new methodology. In hind-sight did he do the right thing? Only time will tell--if we have that much time left. Those that saw the brilliance of his discovery, but felt thwarted for being left out--in spite of their assumed educational qualifications BA's MA's and PhD's then questioned the IDEA. Many still practicing their own version of it.<br /><br />I spent years writing a book based in the theory behind this discovery and after self publishing am lucky if I got twenty people to read the book, let alone see any value to it. Since, I have looked at how and why certain ideas and people with ideas gain prominence. My mother once told me as a teenager running around with lots of ideas in my head that it was not WHAT I knew--but WHO I knew. Meantime I have been searching for the ones I hoped might help me 'climb the ladder' ever since. Alas, I never found even one of them. C'est la vie. JackJack Waddingtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06427501529242639591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-89627338152758849522011-01-07T11:09:36.623-08:002011-01-07T11:09:36.623-08:00Jan: Hey thanks. You must understand. I just ...Jan: Hey thanks. You must understand. I just threw out fifty cartons of my writings cause I have no more room in storage. Since I write every day of the week I am surrounded by thousands of pages that I have more and more trouble organizing. So I lost the Holden stuff. Can you send me it. I even forgot what it was about. I loved Michael. He was so bright and so pure. Art JanovArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-31072058951127872932011-01-07T05:55:49.792-08:002011-01-07T05:55:49.792-08:00Art,
First of all, I think it is the right and re...Art,<br /><br />First of all, I think it is the right and responsibility of everybody (when grown up) to decide about their lives and destinies. Art Janov cannot do that. He can provide a voluntary and not mandatory alternative, which in many cases may help. Unfortunately, I know many who could not benefit and assimilate your help.<br /><br />You said once about people in general: “I think most people are good” and so do I, even in the case of cognitive psychotherapists. In good faith the majority of them try to cure acute, emergency problems like most doctors being prisoners of an old paradigm. And they often fail.<br /><br />What I cannot understand is that, during the last 30 years, science and research have not been able to prove the theory of your principles of “evolution in reverse” and establish a new paradigm. I found in my “Pandoras Box” a copy from you from 1980 (Brain, Mind bulletin, May 19, 1980) in which you and neurologist Michael Holden are talking about a “recently completed first large scale, systematic and long term physiological study of people undergoing psychological change”. <br /><br />What happened to Michael Holdens “resolution index” first described in 1977? Why has it not been possible over 30 years to convince science, authors of psychotherapy handbooks and therapists of this new paradigm? I know that things take time but there must be a few resons which are not being approached.<br /><br />I consider myself a living example of that your Primal Principals are working, but my story, of how I succeeded is tough stuff, and it has scared more than it has attracted. I would like to se more facts on the table!<br /><br />Love JanJan Åke Johnssonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15107966321155297159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-1629213246358355882011-01-07T05:34:36.477-08:002011-01-07T05:34:36.477-08:00A profit-run world is not interested in an individ...A profit-run world is not interested in an individuum (that which cannot be divided). The split is required in order to have people who can be managed, manipulated, ordered to do this and that. Fortunately, what has been done by man can be undone. The fear of the dragon waking up and breaking thru the thin protection wall is so great although deep down we know, without that our life is the life of a zombie. Thank you for contributing to bring an end to the painful separation. In great respect and appreciation, GabrioSig. Rossihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08753636843957147628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-71863750352336421242011-01-06T16:05:19.086-08:002011-01-06T16:05:19.086-08:00IMO the top of the ladder is Art himself, all othe...IMO the top of the ladder is Art himself, all others are on rungs further down certainly in the Mental Health field. The only others might be deans of faculties in higher learning institutions, but alas, they are already structured into the status quo and it is this 'status quo' that I feel you Richard, Art and myself would like to get through to. I personally don't see a way other than pure luck and/or co-incidence and perhaps persistence. <br /><br />I tried in my book to suggest that 'Unified Field Theory', or 'The Theory of Everything' had been proposed and all that was needed was an investigation to see if that was so. I wrote to Stephen Hawking at Cambridge University, Applied Mathematics and Physics department in England, only to be stopped by his gate-keeper. Any and every one in these kinds of positions of influence have these rigid gate-keepers. All that is left IMO is that pure chance entry, but sadly, as I see it, it's extremely well guarded; maybe for some good reasons. <br /><br />History has given us some examples of break throughs in mankind's thinking, but who is to say just how many never did get through and have have left us bereft of some great notions ... that might even have saved us. We are left assuming that most great stuff does eventually get through ... but I'm not so sure anymore. <br /><br />For me that break-through (the greatest in my view) is Primal Theory, not Primal Therapy it has too much baggage for the Mental Health community to see through. The theory, on the other hand stands a greater chance. Neurotics for all their denial, idiocy and blindness just MIGHT see the break-through. <br /><br />Least ways, that's my neurotic hope. JackJack Waddingtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06427501529242639591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-83447916790343589562011-01-06T15:01:48.030-08:002011-01-06T15:01:48.030-08:00I suggest that we all write to the director of the...I suggest that we all write to the director of the National Institute of Mental Health. <br /><br />In my letter I would try to explain as briefly as possible the nature of repressed memories/imprints, and I would state what Dr. Janov claims: improvements in heart rate, blood pressure and hormones after one year of therapy. I would say that the Primal Center has made huge advances in the last five years, and propose a cure for anxiety, depression and addiction.<br /><br />What do you think Jack? Does anyone else have any ideas?<br /><br />Dr. Insel's contact details:<br />Dr. Thomas Insel, National Institute of Mental Health, 6001 Executive Blvd., Bethesda, MD 20892, USA<br /><br />tinsel@mail.nih.govRichard Atkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13587935146938446604noreply@blogger.com