tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post8174435805630542330..comments2024-02-11T18:16:53.445-08:00Comments on Janov's Reflections on the Human Condition: The Simple Truth is Revolutionary: Repression KillsArthur Janovhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16709863014923629409noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-54189759164603447472013-01-02T03:21:31.974-08:002013-01-02T03:21:31.974-08:00Sieglinde
Do you mean Higgs 'Bison'? How i...Sieglinde<br />Do you mean Higgs 'Bison'? How is your foot by the way after your car crash and possible operation. Happy new year to you!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-43576327751733602722012-12-16T23:58:09.959-08:002012-12-16T23:58:09.959-08:00Theresa: The answer seems obvious. You need a prop...Theresa: The answer seems obvious. You need a proper therapist. If we can help you we will, OK Theresa? artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-2309470335909670732012-12-13T21:21:55.468-08:002012-12-13T21:21:55.468-08:00Hi Art
With regards to the previous outline of my ...Hi Art<br />With regards to the previous outline of my current situation, what course of immediate and realistic action do you suggest I actually continue taking? I suspect I am now closer to the possible cause/effect aspects of my depression and anxiety. I realise I must persist in actually feeling more and more of my painful childhood traumas. I have cautiously been doing some self primalling but with some reluctance due to realising that there may be undesirable implications. I know in part that my feelings of abandonment are a major item. I yearned for my mother’s protection and especially from those people I didn’t want to be with. My father being sociopathic, my sister (11 years older, 2nd mother figure) being cold/jealous and my brother (9 years older) being emotionally “mashed” by my father. We have all had immense health issues in our different ways as you may expect. Regards Theresa<br />Theresa Leachhttp://advertisingdesigns.weebly.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-91940311912416878462012-12-12T07:46:40.035-08:002012-12-12T07:46:40.035-08:00I was in no way advocating Ibogaine "therapy&...I was in no way advocating Ibogaine "therapy", mentioning it because I see it as part of a random scramble (uninformed by an overall theory of Pain) for treatment of addiction. The appeal here is a seemingly quick fix - if it don't kill you. Some of what is described by the survivors of the treatments when put in a Primal context make more sense as evidence for why the Primal process is effective whereas behavioral techniques are not- in dealing with early pain as the driver of addiction. Again, we're discussing a substance that can provide access to first line events -out of context- and that there have been instances of sudden death during the treatment.retrunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10982658260354790408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-91298375184290222242012-12-12T01:07:38.438-08:002012-12-12T01:07:38.438-08:00My "awareness" of myself is all about ho...My "awareness" of myself is all about how I can prevent myself. I do not think it is unlike for what anyone else looking for love in the absence of their mother and father. This means that awareness of ourselves protects us from what we otherwise cannot handle... with the consequence of that we are not in our right mind.<br /><br />This implies... whether it is consistent with science for what we tell or doing... there will never be in awareness for what we know. If I am emotionally blocked then I am. It means... my neo cortex does not contain interpretation for what is based on the emotional perspective... and that is extremely serious for how decisions will be made. One view is absolutely not compatible with science without emotional experience.<br /><br />Our arguments looking more after the failure of each other than we are creative in an affirming process. What it is i am saying is... the sceince must be of grater interest than to assert our right for what we think. About this... we need to talk about the therapeutic need.<br /><br />Frank<br />Frankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02242354226308728116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-32546956898853797842012-12-11T12:07:21.288-08:002012-12-11T12:07:21.288-08:00An email comment:
"It amazes me to wake up an...An email comment:<br /><i>"It amazes me to wake up and realize that I have lived almost 70 years with a headache and this pressure<br />on my body. Not to say the least about the void of aloneness that I grew-up feeling.<br /> <br />How we manage to survive, and not survive. How we struggle through this haze of suppressed pain is amazing to me.<br /> <br />The hours and days of tears. The years of misplaced effort. That we survive at all is a wonder, and sad.<br />To think of what could have been. Just to be properly loved."</i><br /><br />And my answer: <br /><br />Absolutely. artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-54554388803770355242012-12-11T12:02:56.235-08:002012-12-11T12:02:56.235-08:00Sieglinde: That's the best they can do....smil...Sieglinde: That's the best they can do....smile, smirk and be done with it. artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-3994956827018820252012-12-11T12:02:07.860-08:002012-12-11T12:02:07.860-08:00Paul: But what you have looks like leaky gates. Le...Paul: But what you have looks like leaky gates. Let me know if we can help. artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-23669920727099660962012-12-11T10:54:09.945-08:002012-12-11T10:54:09.945-08:00Dr. Janov,
It is not Sieglinde who needs more scie...Dr. Janov,<br />It is not Sieglinde who needs more scientific research, it is those who don’t believe that a first line pain can reset the original imprint. Just yesterday a neurologist (Neuro Clinic of New Mexico) told me there is no dopamine test and Parkinson’s (my husband's) is inherited. I recommended your book “The Janov solution”. She smiled in disbelief.<br />SieglindeS. W. Alexanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12087227301358286386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-44349376191740792192012-12-11T10:52:20.385-08:002012-12-11T10:52:20.385-08:00Hi Anonymous,
I get insomnia occasionally. Alcoho...Hi Anonymous,<br /><br />I get insomnia occasionally. Alcohol induced mostly. Then I get insomnia due to lack of exercise (which I am slightly addicted too, y'know, hard physical work addiction, workaholism.<br /><br />The worst side effects I get now of the LSD I took back in the 1980s is my version of leaky gates. I think this is the right words but different people get different symptoms of that so I find it hard to put what leaky gates actually is for me into words.<br /><br />I often broke down and cried about things as a child and youth but I feel the worst side effects of LSD for me was the convoluted way I began to believe anything that worked as a symbolic substitute for a real fulfilling relationship with my parents and brother, particularly my Dad. Maharaji, Gurdjief, Maharishi Mesh, Carl Young, Carl Rogers, The Dali Lama etc etc etc. All substitutes for my Dad. So, briefly, LSD put me onto a merry-go-round, a roller coaster of symbolic fulfilment which exaggerated all my neurosis. Sometimes insomnia is part of that roller coaster. <br /><br />Very occasionally I wake in the middle of the night from a nightmare and realise (intellectually) there is traumatic stuff I am not consciously aware of prior to age 3 / 4yrs.<br /><br />Recently I am motivated to get to the clinic because of one particular nightmare / hallucination from about three weeks ago when I had severe fever, not unlike the ones planespotter has mentioned on this blog.<br /><br />When I eventually get to the clinic and I'm in the motel I am sure that due to the interruption from my workaholism I will get worse insomnia and nightmares and that will probably be why I really look forward to my sessions the next day, relief from insomnia and symbolic terror. I am holding down a shed load of pain by working hard at my craft. Nevertheless It just about makes enough money to save up what I need to get to the clinic, albeit via the bank and my 'credit rating'.<br /><br />Paul G.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006514330039884557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-15087331227872083032012-12-11T10:23:55.032-08:002012-12-11T10:23:55.032-08:00Hi Apollo, are you addressing Richard or Paul?
Ei...Hi Apollo, are you addressing Richard or Paul?<br /><br />Either way, can you explain to me how your brainstem is it's own worst enemy please? Also what has your brainstem learned since you were three years old? You have sort of misquoted me there. I mean I always doubt my own opinion on these matters (inspite of my big words), particularly when I'm challenged and it's good for this old carpenter to be challenged regularly, wooden old mallet that I am. . . So please tell me about what your experiences are because I'm full of doubt behind my big words and I'm sure I need correcting. . . (yes really)!<br /><br />Paul G.<br /><br /><br />Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006514330039884557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-20963683701124997362012-12-10T12:37:28.578-08:002012-12-10T12:37:28.578-08:00Well, Richard, I see your points but to me, they a...Well, Richard, I see your points but to me, they are a sort of word game in themselves. Thoughts and the intellect are often the results of those deep feelings. But as well, we are capable of thoughts, without those feelings, or in contradiction to those feelings. Feelings are one way of knowing, and thoughts are another. Both are important. You can love yourself or hate yourself. One can become conceit and delusion, the other can become a self-loathing. Are they not feelings, too?<br /><br />We have 2 extremes to work with some mid feeling (2nd level) mixed in. Deep feelings on one end and deep thoughts on the other. Thoughts are often sabotaged by the 1st level. But if the 1st level is brave enough to allow the intellect to process without interference, it might be surprised by the often good results of the thinking 3rd level.<br /><br />Lets look at it another way. When we are injured on the 1st level, it sticks and causes huge feelings and creates strong interference within us. Its impact can literally affect our lives and health. But here is the irony.<br /><br />The intellect can also have a huge impact on our lives and outcomes. Choices we make can be a matter of life and death. But thinking will not have the same kind of impact that the 1st level does, internally. But each of those, the 1st and 3rd levels, can result in matters of life and death.<br /><br />You and some others seem to completely negate any usefulness or power to the 3rd level. It was as if nature, evolution, or God, made a mistake in ever making an intellect. And so your run other feelings, labeled by some as self-love or self-hatred, as invalid. Whether truly real or not, and by whose definition or not, those feelings can be real, even if they are a result of an errant process of pain.<br /><br />Too many words going on here on this subject and not enough thought on feelings. How’s that, huh? Word games produce little, if they start to belittle the feelings of some. Every feeling if valid in some way or another. Any arguments there?<br /><br />You’re wrong on 3 and in 4 you turn around and agree that that 1dst line is in control.<br /><br />5. The 1st line is never it's own enemy<br /><br />You really are the silly one, Paul. Your error is quite self-evident, here.<br /><br />6. The 1st line cannot 'learn' anything<br /><br />Again, pathetically wrong and needs no explanation to a capable mind.<br /><br />Number 7 is still up for debate, which is why I am still here.<br /><br />I recommend you read more on the autonomic nervous system which runs all body systems that we are not always aware of. But Malevolent hypnotists can actually change any of those autonomic functions, by command, and produce astounding results, quite contrary to the external senses. Me think that perhaps you have just not read enough or thought enough about it all. That is also why I am here to lend a hand, whether accepted or not.<br />apollohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02040184843184207525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-10524545952950129292012-12-10T11:50:10.229-08:002012-12-10T11:50:10.229-08:00Hi, yes,
they are always related to 'itself&#...Hi, yes,<br /><br />they are always related to 'itself' and that is narcissism.<br /><br />I am a narcissist too; in a way there's nothing wrong with it, like beliefs, they are part of our defences and the 'game of life' but they do not reflect reality because their purpose is to defend us from it.<br /><br />Thus the scientists have mistaken the apparatus of their laboratories for a 'Play Pen'.<br /><br />I would say that if we could set up Primal Schools it would be because Primal Theory practised in school would take the competitive pressure out of 'play' in the pre school nurseries where the critical window of the 'pupils' is still not quite shut. <br /><br />I mean most pre school play groups are pretty good at this now and play workers are trained in Piaget influenced child development theory (even if they've not heard of Piaget) but they would not currently be allowed to extend that into a new "Pro-Active Primal Format". Currently the schools and pre-schools in our societies are still "Sub-Contractors" for the Parents; that is the central problem with democracy, it does not count children into the vote.<br /><br />I mean, legally that's just about it. So, if the parents are 'a-historic' then so are the school protocols. What's needed is an examination of the "Rights / Needs of the Child", which ironically governs 'School/ Education Law' anyway.<br /><br />It's the oxymoron of the Primal Human Universe. My current take on "Presenting a Case" would be to appeal to a 'child development' school education audience.<br /><br />Look, if we're going to "Present A Case" we really must do our research into what's socially acceptable and what's already been agreed "Internationally" before trying to present another "Scientific Paper". Think about the schools. From age two.<br /><br />This is not Rocket Science but repression makes it all feel like rocket science because of the "ADD Like Intrusion".<br /><br />We're all good thinkers on this blog. If we could collectivise it would be because we can imagine what our own children would need in school from the light shining out of our own Primal Experiences.<br /><br />Even our own repressed and addicted insights.<br /><br />Think about what we would like for our children in school, all the answers for expanding Primal lie there because we were all "Sent To School" and suffered / benefited from it. Weren't we?<br /><br />Paul G.<br /><br /><br /><br /> Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006514330039884557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-26044409813125499822012-12-10T09:36:11.529-08:002012-12-10T09:36:11.529-08:00Paul: You are so right and brilliant. #2 The int...Paul: You are so right and brilliant. #2 The intellect can only postulate....that is why we get all those intellectual theories such as cognitive/behavioral. They are intellectual constructions unrelated to deep feelings. artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-239111744872354282012-12-10T09:10:55.679-08:002012-12-10T09:10:55.679-08:00Anonymous: Careful. These chemicals are dangerous....Anonymous: Careful. These chemicals are dangerous. art Arthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-7175964324040527352012-12-10T09:09:13.467-08:002012-12-10T09:09:13.467-08:00Sieglinde: Don't forget we did serious scienti...Sieglinde: Don't forget we did serious scientific studies years ago discussed in Primal Healing. artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-49031422532997386132012-12-10T09:08:30.553-08:002012-12-10T09:08:30.553-08:00Greetings: I worry about so-called primal centers....Greetings: I worry about so-called primal centers. It takes at least 6 years to train a therapist. artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-17980437683854764362012-12-10T02:27:46.004-08:002012-12-10T02:27:46.004-08:00Paul
After taking lsd do you manage to sleep okay...Paul<br /><br />After taking lsd do you manage to sleep okay or do you suffer from the insomnia as I do that seems to be left in the wake of this powerful terrible drug?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-46915587345612392362012-12-10T00:58:45.955-08:002012-12-10T00:58:45.955-08:00For many the primal option can't exist. What t...For many the primal option can't exist. What to do?...<br /><br />The best thing you can do, Art, is that legacy programme and give it to everyone for mass-diffusion. It would also help to give the laymen and patients a foundation to judge (future) rouge therapists, and hold them to account. (A bit like politics - you need some education on things to know the difference between a good guy and a creep).<br /><br />And also promote the virtues of proper childcare for at those most critical times, and even have that as an independent focus (Don't *directly* mix it with primal therapy/theory...keep the childcare thing the central focus).<br /><br />If I may say so, I think that good woman of yours has the right idea here.Andrew D Atkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04492591375757227409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-39295098427539856602012-12-09T12:03:38.149-08:002012-12-09T12:03:38.149-08:00Apollo,
In this case I think we should be "c...Apollo,<br /><br />In this case I think we should be "cautious" with typing about what we understand... a professor with a lot of others will immediately enroll they themselfs as sensible.<br /><br />To understanding alludes itself to much with how we interpret what the reality contains. I mean... our "reality" is too much influenced by what the limbic system is leaking.<br /><br />Frank Frankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02242354226308728116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-74338019673055126122012-12-09T11:53:31.373-08:002012-12-09T11:53:31.373-08:00AnttiJ: I wish we could help.l I didn't manuf...AnttiJ: I wish we could help.l I didn't manufacture our economic system; I barely exist it, but alas it is all we got. artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-33301729367592856532012-12-09T11:47:16.985-08:002012-12-09T11:47:16.985-08:00Paul: Well done. artPaul: Well done. artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-37821427736467799852012-12-09T11:44:05.109-08:002012-12-09T11:44:05.109-08:00Ferdinand: I never knew my book was out in Germany...Ferdinand: I never knew my book was out in Germany. what reviews? art and by the way I couldn't say it better than this letterArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-19602452974937354762012-12-09T10:41:09.818-08:002012-12-09T10:41:09.818-08:00Hi,
I have recently broken off contact with '...Hi,<br /><br />I have recently broken off contact with 'friends' who have taken these pagan ritual drugs and become even more cranky than before. One of them said to me that he met Bacchus and danced with him at the event. . . he really believes his hallucinations. Another just ranted at me about how great the drug and the ritual was for him and how I really must try it myself and implied I am deluded until I do. . . I eventually dissociated and walked away.<br /><br />Paul G.<br /><br />I used to do LSD years ago and I don't any more.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006514330039884557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-41666294930074962072012-12-09T10:36:10.994-08:002012-12-09T10:36:10.994-08:00Hi Apollo,
Mr Perfectionist here again:
-"O...Hi Apollo,<br /><br />Mr Perfectionist here again:<br /><br />-"Our deep inner 1st line seems to prevent us from this *1, for whatever its reasons. But a good intellect should help us to discern real from “presentations” not so real at all *2. Of course, the 1st line may like the illusions *3 and decide to shut the intellect off and embrace the illusions *4. The 1st line can be its own worst enemy *5, since its “knowledge” is just primitive feelings, which are memories and experience from that level. But hopefully, the 1st line can eventually learn *6 that good things can come from an objective intellect *7, pursuing scary directions of truth, for a more long term advantage"-.<br /><br />You can rely on Mr Perfectionist here to pick up on the above and make 6 asterisks worthy of note:<br /><br />1. It's not the 1st line that prevents access to Primal but repression (and beliefs) that prevent access to the 1st line.<br />2. The intellect alone cannot discern reality, it can only calculate and postulate. Without connection therefore, the intellect is not to be trusted to produce an objective view.<br />3. The 1st line cannot 'like or dislike' anything it can only react, it is the 2nd and 3rd lines that make inside us what we call desire. That's why babies and neonates 'need' total care and attention.<br />4. The 1st line doesn't 'shut down the intellect'. The traumatic registers in the 1st line drive the intellect to distortions in perception through repressed traumatic pressure.<br />5. The 1st line is never it's own enemy, that's the sort of thing Victorian poisonous pedagogues say; the enemies of the 1st line are always unmet needs inflicted on it by either uncaring and ignorant parents or by unfortunate circumstances beyond any one's control.<br />6. The 1st line cannot 'learn' anything after the critical window has closed at age 3ish; after that 'learning' can really only be a 2nd & 3rd line activity.<br />7. Good things can come from an objective intellect but that objectivity is really only 'expressed' in 'rational' ways by the intellect after connection. It is possible for the total organism to act objectively without words or symbols. The intellect will achieve such objectivity only after connection with the limbic and ultimately the stem centres.<br /><br />Apollo it's great to hear from you again but you're still trying to fit Primal into a Gothic Mediaeval view of the brainstem. Like those paintings of St George and the Dragon where the maiden to be rescued is actually in control of the dragon symbolised by the dog's lead around his fiery neck held at leash in her hand.<br /><br />It is a Medieval view that the brainstem is the cause of problems; that the 'lizard' in us is not to be trusted, to be 'dungeoned up' and ultimately slaughtered in the interests of 'rational thinking'.<br /><br />This is the Cognitive Behavioural Philosophy of the mediaeval Christian / Catholic Church. <br /><br />Paul G.<br /><br /> <br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006514330039884557noreply@blogger.com