tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post6326624144143242163..comments2024-02-11T18:16:53.445-08:00Comments on Janov's Reflections on the Human Condition: The Simple Truth is Revolutionary: The Saga of my LifeArthur Janovhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16709863014923629409noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-89732292850143822262014-11-21T07:59:14.492-08:002014-11-21T07:59:14.492-08:00Thanks for your reply, Paul.
I still don`t unders...Thanks for your reply, Paul.<br /><br />I still don`t understand your technical discussion, but that`s OK.<br /><br />I forgot to point out in my original post that the last 4 lines of it are the opening lyrics to the "Tears for Fears" song ,"Standing on the Corner of the Third World", which I refer to.<br /><br />I have to disagree with you and Janov that music is just a kind of drug temporarily making us feel good. I beleive that there are gradations of the depth of our ability to feel ,depending on how neurotic one is. My point is that most of us can still feel truly to some extent. The more neurotic`s true feelings though are mixed with more irrationnal responses and/or depression, but they still can be partly real and true. Everyone can respond to some extent to love,and thus to good music, or other arts.This also brings up the disagreement I have with Janov that most therapists loving accdeptance is also just a drug for which we come back as for a fix. In my opinion,if their aceptance is false, we feel it. If their acceptance is true, we feel the connection and feelings flow from the patient to the therapist. Anyways that is my positive experience with my Bioenergetic therapist. . I don`t feel that seeing her is like taking a drink, or smoking a joint.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-6130320120449648232014-11-20T01:26:56.957-08:002014-11-20T01:26:56.957-08:00Hi Marco,
Yes, I know Tears For Fears too. It'...Hi Marco,<br /><br />Yes, I know Tears For Fears too. It's heartening to know some people get to reflect Arts work back into the world.<br /><br />The technical music stuff is not as tech as it sounds. Research shows most of us mammals are 'hooked into' sound as a way to 'bond' and to communicate basic environmental conditions. <br />When we are alerted our voices rise to a higher alerting octave and with notes which are often in the major chords (think trumpet calls or the cry: "LOOK - OUT"!): TA - DAAAAH ! ! !<br /><br />So we get woken up by those ascending major noises and then descending noises we use to sooth. . . Mums voice deepens as she tries to sooth us and when we are sad and in 'questioning / self reflective mode our voices often ask in minor chords dropping to lower notes down the octave.<br /><br />It is possible to modify your mood with music but of course as Art tells us it won't change the imprint at all. In this sense music is a drug triggering the release of feel-good hormones; temporary but essential relief from the madness surrounding our hectic / humdrum lives.<br /><br />Paul G.<br /><br />Paul G.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006514330039884557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-69073312275851411412014-11-18T15:38:15.957-08:002014-11-18T15:38:15.957-08:00Hi Paul:
Your opening remarks about minor chords...Hi Paul: <br /><br />Your opening remarks about minor chords in a descending octave caught my eye. I don`t know what you technically mean, but I sure do know that some types of music, for me, are powerful evokers of feelings. Although I can`t listen to music as much as I would like because of a serious ear problem I have, I am repeatedly listening to parts of one magnificent song these days : "Standing on the corner of the Third World" by Tears for Fears.Wow...the depth and meaning and beauty of that song is just incredible. Feelings start to swirl and swell within me. What great artists! And I know that Janov`s books influenced them at the beginnings of their careers, which is an interesting connection.<br /><br />Marco<br /><br />Man, I never slept so hard<br /> I never dreamt so well<br /> Dreaming, I was safe in life<br /> Like mussels in a shellAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-14520886465742793582014-11-17T12:03:05.500-08:002014-11-17T12:03:05.500-08:00Hi vuko,
minor chords. . . in a descending octave...Hi vuko,<br /><br />minor chords. . . in a descending octave. . . brings us down. . . to where feelings really matter. I think it's because when we wail for mamma and eventually begin to give up for the lack of her we also descend even lower down to lower levels as a survival mechanism. . . To Mums heart beat. . . To mums deep breathing when we are inside her womb and she's resting. . .<br /><br />Sometimes for me it is the sound of the sea and the surf washing up against the beach. Nearly everywhere on the planet the waves wash at a similar frequency and that frequency is ancient. . . A rhythm so old we cannot 'remember' consciously. . . we can only sense it.<br /><br />I love to lie on the beach on a sunny day and relax to the sound of the waves. Sometimes during the winter when it's cold and raining I also go to the beach and hunch under an umbrella and 'brood'. . .<br />Paul G.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006514330039884557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-69683103060580985942014-11-17T02:10:33.500-08:002014-11-17T02:10:33.500-08:00Good luck with the therapy SieglindeGood luck with the therapy Sieglindeplanespotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05315637682741508786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-91153763605532803692014-11-16T09:26:05.087-08:002014-11-16T09:26:05.087-08:00we need access to both the feelings and defenses f...we need access to both the feelings and defenses from them. the latest therapeutic development in the Center could be about new ways to support the defenses with medications if necessary? <br />memories are far away - with a reason. <br />jarre's souvenir de chine for some reason always make me very sad.<br />vukonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-87558100341621314212014-11-16T04:57:51.164-08:002014-11-16T04:57:51.164-08:00Hi,
I heard on BBC Radio 4 that there has been so...Hi,<br /><br />I heard on BBC Radio 4 that there has been some new research into "Free Will".<br /><br />It's good to look at Wikepedia on this subject as it confirms what I thought; which is that the words are generic and there are actually several forms of "Free Will".<br /><br />Anyway; the most recent researchers confirmed what Kathleen Vohs & Jonathan Schooler discovered which is that under experimental conditions subjects who worked under 'deterministic conditions' (IE: did NOT believe in Free Will) were more likely to cheat.<br /><br />They concluded that: -"Perhaps denying Free Will simply provides the ultimate excuse to behave as one likes"-. . .<br /><br />Now please forgive me for raising this issue but this whole discussion seems to go around in a loop does it not? I mean, what is "cheating" and "behaving as one likes" if they are NOT aspects of Free Will? I mean to ask: "are we acting freely and have we consciously chosen to do the stuff we do PARTICULARLY WHEN we simply follow the rules"? NO, we are not; thus if we do decide to 'break away' from the 'straight & narrow', to follow the 'unbeaten path' (such as Primal), then surely we are acting with a degree of Free Will? Yes? Is that "cheating"? NO.<br /><br />Let me turn this around the other way: Most researchers agree there are seriously flawed assumptions with 'Free Will'. . . Thus one can loosely agree that 'Morality & Rules' are there to guide the majority of us through life without really having to "Consciously Decide" what to do. . . <br />Yet under experimental conditions these researchers discover we appear to NEED the illusion of Free Will to act in a Moral way. But what is moral? <br /><br />I think this all comes down to denial of the 1st line. It's like the Jungians regularly refer to "ancient deep lying ARCHAIC REMNANTS" (which are eternally unfathomable) and moan about the impoverishment of SYMBOLIC life. Virtually nobody comprehends what is really driving us and that IS our 1st line imprints.<br /><br />It must have driven Art (as a Doctor of Psychology and a practicing Psychotherapist) into various states of perplexion and infuriation to have been so familiar with this FUNDAMENTAL aspect of the human condition and for so long ONLY to see other researchers endlessly debating the CONSEQUENCES of the 1st line without ever actually considering there may be this SIMPLE and DEVASTATING CAUSE. <br /><br />I've heard it called: "Pouring From The Empty Into The Void" but you can't tell other people that when they continually debate consequences without realising that is what they are 'compelled' by their own denial to do.<br /><br />Paul G.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006514330039884557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-79555472950641614662014-11-16T04:30:19.795-08:002014-11-16T04:30:19.795-08:00The pain is still at the little boy Frank... Frank... <br />The pain is still at the little boy Frank... Frank who now suffers for not allowing himself to be who he is!<br /><br />How can I stop thinking? It to help myself when thoughts was... is all help I have... help to survive... all I have as defense against unbearable pain... pain I can not possibly experience "without help on how"?<br /><br />For the question of "stop thinking" lays the answer because the idea avoids to do other things than what they defense against! A thought about it... can "gently lift the lid" for what thoughts holds.<br /><br />We are slaves under own ok because we suffer from pain our thoughts defense against... thoughts against what we has of feelings. Feelings who can be disastrous for us... so disastrous that suffering can work its way to a professors task... it with the consequences of not feel own pain.<br /><br />We now know what a professor can cause because of his denial of the child in him... the child as talks about why he chose to become a professor!<br /><br />FrankFrankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02242354226308728116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-34270374429634375032014-11-16T02:03:04.403-08:002014-11-16T02:03:04.403-08:00Anonymous: They can be extinguished and that is wh...Anonymous: They can be extinguished and that is what our brain research will attempt to do. artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-11446871271022329692014-11-15T13:58:36.275-08:002014-11-15T13:58:36.275-08:00DR. AJ "It began so early that the imprint wa...DR. AJ "It began so early that the imprint was compounded. I have taken off layers and layers of it but the residue remains.<br /><br />What about this?<br />"Unconscious fear memories established through the amygdala appear to be indelibly burned into the brain. They are propably with us for life. ... Psychiatrist Roger Pitman has astutely noted that findings from studies of fear coditioning in rats have important implications for how anxiety is treated. The classic treatment, based on Mowrer's and Miller's theory, was to force the patient to be exposed to the anxiety-causing stimuli without allowing any avoidance or escape behavior and thereby try to extinguish the anxiety that the stimuli elicit. But in the light of the indelibility of the amygdala's hold on traumatic memories, he suggests a bleaker, though perhaps more realistic, assessment. We may not be able to get rid of the impilicit memories that underlie anxiety disorders. If this is the case, the best we can hope for is to exercise control over them." (Joseph LeDoux: The emotional brain. 1998, p.252)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-90832320193461452632014-11-15T08:35:23.744-08:002014-11-15T08:35:23.744-08:00Thanks Anonymous,
I love Bladerunner, &science...Thanks Anonymous,<br />I love Bladerunner, &science fiction-- it highlights humanity..<br />And I too appreciate hearing Art's personal experienceJacquiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10794214106644328210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-49399945755361572512014-11-15T07:50:35.891-08:002014-11-15T07:50:35.891-08:00Hi Paul G.
So am I. Thanks
It’s frightening what ...Hi Paul G.<br />So am I. Thanks <br />It’s frightening what I discovered/become conscious. Sieglinde<br /><br />Hi Frank,<br />“I did not get a moment of closeness to my mom and dad. What can not be the reaction of a PRIMAL SCREAM if not the moment of experience the feeling of what I lost...”<br /><br />That’s my case as well. My parents were abusive strangers to me. I lost the most important 10 years between the age around 8-19. After my grandma died, I was 7 and had to become an adult overnight. Suddenly I was 20 and became a mother. I was never allowed to develop my Identity which takes place in the teen years. I never did girly things. I love my grandmother and grandfather but have no longing for my mother or father, only revulsion. Sieglinde<br />S. W. Alexanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12087227301358286386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-57426806453985786292014-11-15T07:48:52.436-08:002014-11-15T07:48:52.436-08:00Dr. Janov, I can relate. Intelligence has nothing ...Dr. Janov, I can relate. Intelligence has nothing to do with learning abilities. In my opinion, rising feelings from way down in the right Hemisphere are interfering or even blocking left Hemisphere concentration. Sieglinde S. W. Alexanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12087227301358286386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-37967340396528753082014-11-15T03:24:07.370-08:002014-11-15T03:24:07.370-08:00Primal Therapy contains a science that easy can be...Primal Therapy contains a science that easy can be lost... it for gererationer to come unless something is done about it.<br /><br />Science has so little time to exist depending on how long we live!<br /><br />For this reason... the question is whether we should allow science to show content or whether we should let it be lost for what other "sentences" have as purpose to not disclose other than what the defense will do against suffering. <br /><br />It is not to seldom science becomes a threat against own activities... it is perceived as a loss for what cognitive sense serves its purpose... not to "incriminate" what caused the pain.<br /><br />Fraunhofer's discovery of what prism glass talked about was kept secret for a hundred years because it would violate the scheme of what society could accept. We are about to lose that "secret" for what primal therapy talks about... if we do not "kicking in doors" to what we are about to lose!<br /><br />FrankFrankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02242354226308728116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-69631318129699134172014-11-14T02:21:16.690-08:002014-11-14T02:21:16.690-08:00Art!
No... I was never appreciated for something ...Art!<br /><br />No... I was never appreciated for something like that... to be inteligent wise or in any other sense. I ran in every direction where I could avoid to be seen. My time at school was disastrous. <br /><br />Others had to "rescued" me... so as girls saw me looking good (my "luck"... but very painful) and what cars and motorcycles could do for what I would be seen... anything other than I could manage to be.<br /><br />The only joy I experienced is the one I now can experience in myself that is what primal therapy is making for me... I'm starting to "dare" to be with what is slowly on its way up through my system... the little boy Frank.<br /><br />If we learn about what is now seen as wrong around your therapy Art... to be right... we've won a lot... it is the beginning of our life!<br /><br />Your very thankfull Frank... now more alone than ever... it along with myself... it with eyes that beginning to see!<br /><br />FrankFrankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02242354226308728116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-33719827156078961142014-11-14T01:12:45.014-08:002014-11-14T01:12:45.014-08:00Again Singlinde!
I did not get a chance to live.....Again Singlinde!<br /><br />I did not get a chance to live... I did not get a moment of closeness to my mom and dad. What can not be the reaction of a PRIMAL SCREAM if not the moment of experience the feeling of what I lost... for all of what could be for my life!<br /><br />Your Frank<br />Frankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02242354226308728116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-42596611801357524582014-11-14T00:29:53.193-08:002014-11-14T00:29:53.193-08:00Hi Marco,
I did exactly the same thing with an ai...Hi Marco,<br /><br />I did exactly the same thing with an air rifle and managed to put the poor creature out of it's misery with another pellet. . .<br /><br />That is burned into my memory; in particular was the internal emotional anguish / dilemma that as soon as I had 'dropped' my target, I would NOW need to go shoot at point blank range to finish it off.<br /><br />So, from 'almost innocent' Bird Slaughter to consciously delivered 'Bird Murder'. <br /><br />This event along with several others including traveling in East Africa and seeing gross poverty, disease and injustice so PRICKED my conscience I have forever become an advocate for peace. . . It's hardly surprising my own anger and frustrations from infancy and a difficult birth have emerged and led me to a breakdown (breakthrough).<br /><br />Sometimes when I read testimonies such as Arts above I sense that many people's denial / repression is kept intact by having been 'cossetted' by the various 'States'. People who have vivid experiences possibly stand more chance of finding their true selves. . . The 'moral majority' sail in a ship purposely designed to protect them from REAL shocks in life that might wake them up to the truth of their condition. I dunno, there are no simple solutions are there?<br /><br />Paul G.<br />Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006514330039884557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-72585883100448332572014-11-13T18:29:55.205-08:002014-11-13T18:29:55.205-08:00It is.. hope needs to translate to do. JxIt is.. hope needs to translate to do. JxJacquiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10794214106644328210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-63645393564603932252014-11-13T11:06:35.450-08:002014-11-13T11:06:35.450-08:00String of thoughts --The android also said: "...String of thoughts --The android also said: "I want more life." An interesting mix of words. Nobody wants to die they just want the pain to stop...( thinking Robin Williams here ) I'm more and more and more sensitive to the reality of animals as sentient beings as I become more aware of myself. They deserve our care. I'm very impressed with your expression of personal pain Art. You used to be much more private. You've come a long way baby! love you!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-86889699875846133582014-11-13T07:34:25.947-08:002014-11-13T07:34:25.947-08:00OK let us hope together.Time is precious artOK let us hope together.Time is precious artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-17220564492257975562014-11-13T07:33:55.673-08:002014-11-13T07:33:55.673-08:00I never developed until my later twenties. I coul...I never developed until my later twenties. I could feel my brain changing. I was the worst student, had severe ADD and could not learn at all. I never planned to go to college but when I joined the Navy I took an intelligence test, and then forgot about it. One year later my battleship was on the way to Saipan when a Destroyer came alongside and asked for me to get aboard. My test was so high that they thought I should go to officers training college. I joined Preflight and went to Oregon State Univ. I got such high grades that I began to think I could continue university after the war. I had already done six battles and wanted no more war. Since my father always treated me and told me that I was an idiot I had no other frame of reference until the Navy. And of course I did several universities and always got high grades. artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-80924245032559994082014-11-12T17:20:48.832-08:002014-11-12T17:20:48.832-08:00That was a very touching testimony from an obvious...That was a very touching testimony from an obviously sensitive person. Much appreciated.<br /><br />May I offer a reading suggestion: "When elephants weep:the emotional lives of animals" by Jeffrey Masson. OK, I haven't read it yet, but by flipping through it a bit, it seems pretty appealing.<br /><br />You know, everytime I see some jerk walking her or his dog on a leash, and I see that person yanking the leash ,thus choking the dog temporarily because the dog is just trying to be free to act, a rage arises within me. And then you sometimes see these idiots actually talking to the dog, admonishing it, wagging their fingers in the dog's face, as if the dog understands what is being said! No wonder I am turning into a bitter reclusive misanthrope!<br /><br />All this brings up memories of the worst thing I ever did in my life: when I was a child I was with a kid I saw only once in a while. He had a BB gun or some such type of gun,and gave me it to shoot at something. I was kind of reluctant, not having any interest one way or another. Then all of a sudden, he says:look, there's a bird on the wire there. Shoot it! So I wirl around and shoot.I hit the bird,the bird drops to the ground, where, grievously wounded, its wings start to flail about. Seeing this, I am mortified, and burst out into tears, running to my mother, in deep anguish and guilt at having done such a horrible thing. That was 50 years ago, and I have never forgotten it.Needless to say ,I have never repeated such a odious act, and never will (unless I was starving in the middle of the woods, an unlikely prospect)<br /><br />Marco<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-35511171051199617712014-11-12T09:54:28.687-08:002014-11-12T09:54:28.687-08:00a peer reviewed paper that might be interesting..
...a peer reviewed paper that might be interesting..<br /><br />http://ca.wiley.com/WileyCDA/PressRelease/pressReleaseId-113882.html<br /><br />Leading nursing journal finds mothers and babies benefit from skin-to-skin contact<br />11-Nov-2014<br /><br />Research during the past 30 years has found many benefits of skin-to-skin contact between mothers and newborns immediately after birth, particularly with aiding breastfeeding. However, in some hospitals, skin-to-skin contact following cesarean birth is not implemented, due to practices around the surgery. A recent quality improvement project demonstrated that women's birth experiences were improved by implementing skin-to-skin contact after cesarean surgery.Kaznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-37204526738721157892014-11-12T06:11:08.496-08:002014-11-12T06:11:08.496-08:00HiArt,
how on earth did You "make it" th...HiArt,<br />how on earth did You "make it" through college/university etc before th"advent" of Primal Therapy?!!<br />Was it Your genius which kept You alive or the ability to keep all those Pains down and fuction..?<br />For my part :I did n o t function and am not able to evaluate the difference between Your amount and mine..(I guess it`s a matter o GENIUS !!<br />Yours emanuelemanuelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01380331335118885426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-6649171076321306542014-11-12T04:49:22.862-08:002014-11-12T04:49:22.862-08:00I love life too. I don't want to die.. Time is...I love life too. I don't want to die.. Time is so very precious<br />The android's passing speech in 'Bladerunner' comes to mind..<br /><br />Your legacy will live on Art, in each &every way. And have faith that Primal will develop where it needs to be.. JacquieJacquiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10794214106644328210noreply@blogger.com