tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post5669412749434614066..comments2024-02-11T18:16:53.445-08:00Comments on Janov's Reflections on the Human Condition: The Simple Truth is Revolutionary: The Difference between Reform and RevolutionArthur Janovhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16709863014923629409noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-34670458536093615662013-08-18T06:03:55.727-07:002013-08-18T06:03:55.727-07:00An email comment:
"A response (Primal Theory ...An email comment:<br /><em>"A response (Primal Theory and The DSM)<br /><br />Thanks Art for writing this...<br /><br />I was struck once again, by how true your words are from my own personal experience... <br /><br />But I also think that part of the problem with psychotherapy, is the business structure in which it is forced to function. For example most therapy is paid for by insurance companies who take a dim view of sessions that go on for more than an hour or longer than 6 months to a year...<br /><br />Then there is the DSM, strictly a behaviorist document that offers little help in terms of understanding the nature of someones suffering. In fact its really just a billing document that helps a treatment provider bill insurance companies. As I am sure you are aware, In many ways the DSM, is something that all therapists have problems with, there have been protests over what it classifies as a disorder, and how it views some diagnostic criteria. <br /><br />Also the disconnect between symptoms and history perpetuates the mistaken belief that illness does not have a specific cause and has made it impossible for therapy to advance. <br /><br />This has led me to wonder what a DSM, based on Primal Theory, would look like. It could be a wonderful tool that could offer understanding about peoples suffering. The classification of diseases would be based on history, instead of groupings of symptoms. <br /><br />For example using heaving drinking, that you mentioned in your Article.<br /><br />While the DSM, does help describe alcohol dependence, it does not offer any treatment suggestions. And in fact psychiatry offers next to nothing when it comes to alcoholism. Since they have no treatments that offer much of a success rate they just send their patients to endless A.A. meetings, with the hope that they will become just as addicted to them as they are to drinking.<br /><br />Instead, addressing the unmet early needs of an Alcoholic, in terms of diagnostic history, could off an understanding of what they are going through, why it drives them crazy, why they are powerless to control it, and also how primal feelings can free them. <br /><br />Once again, thanks "</em>Arthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-30909320076253705812013-04-04T08:14:33.484-07:002013-04-04T08:14:33.484-07:00Decent, but insufficient
A psychotherapy may be ...Decent, but insufficient<br /><br /> A psychotherapy may be decent (“good” in a modest way put into relation of the dominating recognized standards, which patients are being offered under the present treatment paradigm) at treating symptoms but at the same time insufficient when it comes to curing the imprinted pain of a patient. <br />So yes, something can both be decent / (modestly) good and insufficient at the same time.<br /><br />Jan JohnssonJan Åke Johnssonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15107966321155297159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-32626832016025960832013-04-03T10:42:48.916-07:002013-04-03T10:42:48.916-07:00Hi Jan,
listen, how do you understand decent and ...Hi Jan,<br /><br />listen, how do you understand decent and insufficient together. in my reading decent is good and insufficient is bad, let's say it to simplify. how come you mean a therapy is good (helping the patient) and then insufficient (not helping the patient) - how can Freudians be good if they do not achieve anything? <br /><br />Paul Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-75578306465488933622013-04-03T02:24:15.244-07:002013-04-03T02:24:15.244-07:00Paul and Sieglinde: So true. art.Paul and Sieglinde: So true. art.Arthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-15940405089227170732013-04-02T15:56:34.639-07:002013-04-02T15:56:34.639-07:00Richard: You need to improve your skill in writing...Richard: You need to improve your skill in writing so as to make that which makes sense to you, also make sense to others. Andrew D Atkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04492591375757227409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-89244111932466081352013-04-02T15:21:11.314-07:002013-04-02T15:21:11.314-07:00Hi,
Soon after I read about the three brains evolv...Hi,<br />Soon after I read about the three brains evolving in a linear way from the stem I began a very long and subtle insight, I'm quite certain it will never stop till I drop. <br /><br />Previously, without this 'piece' of simple information I couldn't really discriminate between sensations, feelings and thoughts. I just speak for myself but I am always astounded by how simple the basic Primal Theory is and how well one can use it to recognise what's coming up from where to where, so to speak. Also the idea that what is important in dreams and fantasies is the sensation/feeling. . . that the 'images' are almost entirely distorted thought forms. . . thoughts and ideas are so ephemeral, if they don't relate directly to the facts.<br /><br />The theory links with the facts of ones psyche and a strange new marriage begins. I think you've got to be married to yourself before you get married to any one else.<br /><br />That would be a very good thing.<br /><br />Paul G.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006514330039884557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-73296541594005546822013-04-02T08:31:02.675-07:002013-04-02T08:31:02.675-07:00Hi Paul G.
You are right.
However if we don’t pu...Hi Paul G.<br /><br />You are right.<br /><br />However if we don’t push beyond fear, ask for scientific proof, therapies become/are no more than a religion. <br />Cancer can’t be cured with aspirin and mental trauma cannot be cured with positive thinking. <br />Sieglinde S. W. Alexanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12087227301358286386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-25138890171259371152013-04-02T05:26:40.330-07:002013-04-02T05:26:40.330-07:00Richard: I am trying to understand what you write ...Richard: I am trying to understand what you write but I am having a hard time. Your dinosaurs are the symbols of real origins because those origins are imprinted without words and are not knowable in everyday life. What child or adult could guess about terror at birth due to lack of oxygen? artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-29311208617824253792013-04-02T05:21:11.048-07:002013-04-02T05:21:11.048-07:00Paul: Not only will I write about epigenetics but ...Paul: Not only will I write about epigenetics but I am meeting next week to discuss a research project on it. We want to see if our therapy reverses methylation. artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-11339431619004054142013-04-01T13:06:08.304-07:002013-04-01T13:06:08.304-07:00Hi Sieglinde,
-"We need to find out why PT is...Hi Sieglinde,<br />-"We need to find out why PT is rejected"-.<br /><br />Fear of feeling, fear of loss and fear of needing to respond.<br /><br />Like rabbits in the headlights. . .<br /><br />Paul G.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006514330039884557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-25697802155934316122013-04-01T04:19:57.406-07:002013-04-01T04:19:57.406-07:00Hi Richard,
-"your genes will ensure that you...Hi Richard,<br />-"your genes will ensure that your future children grow stronger legs. Is this possible? Why not? If epigenesis is that advanced, it would be hugely beneficial to the survival of our species"-. <br /><br />I presume this would also depend on what is carried over in the sperm and the egg, and then what the parents / carers 'encourage' / 'educate' in the growing infant. (Womb life included). <br /><br />My personal opinion is that 'bigger legs' will evolve out of the evolutionary process of natural selection or 'adaption' over many generations.<br /><br />The mountain folk of South America are a good example. They have evolved large rib cages / lung capacity with extremely efficient oxygen uptake for their high altitude life. This may have involved some epigenetic processes but actually those children born with small rib cages just did not survive so well. Nor did they look attractive to other larger ribbed people (for many reasons including the breathing efficiency)etc. Eventually, in that region the small ribbed ones ceased to be born and the big ribbed ones with large lung capacity became the predominant genetic stock.<br /><br />I suppose the only way to test this theory (ie: to see if epigenetics plays a larger part in the process of 'natural selection'), would be to intentionally look at high altitude types living over many generations in low altitude areas to see if this process reverses WITHOUT BREEDING WITH SMALL RIBBED TYPES. Is it the 'gene switching' epigentic process producing smaller rib cages from larger rib caged stock when in an oxygen rich low altitude? I don't think so but I am interested in how epigenetics works other than as a buffer to protect the original gene material from shocks and knocks. <br />I would appreciate Art write a bit more on epigenetic theory and how it fits in with natural selection theory. I am no expert and the science is still young.<br /><br />Paul G. Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006514330039884557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-70573384451737919082013-03-31T15:32:14.023-07:002013-03-31T15:32:14.023-07:00I am conjecturing, Art, but I do know from persona...I am conjecturing, Art, but I do know from personal experience that a crude belief can form in an instant, without warning, such as my belief in being surrounded by dinosaurs (when I was five years old). Obviously I was getting close to a truthful connection, and my brain automatically replaced the truth with dinosaurs. I believed the dinosaurs lived in the real world, and I knew I was in the fake world, and I knew they couldn't get me in the fake world. That belief came to me like a sudden realisation -- a sudden awareness -- but obviously it wasn't conscious awareness; I wasn't conscious of the truth. The extremely difficult part was somehow finding a way to accept such an awful belief while the terror was overwhelming me. After considerable thought (and shaking), I decided to stay forever in the fake world, and concluded that the fake world was OK so long as I was happy. I calmed down, and before going to sleep, my final thoughts were: "my happiness is the only thing that really matters". I was only five but I remember every detail of that scene as if it happened yesterday.<br /><br />Similarly, you talked about a patient who suddenly sat up and said "I have been saved by God"<br />This is why I am conjecturing that the intellectual processes are cruder and faster down below, consistent with the overall pattern of the brain. The lobe narrows at the point where it joins onto the corpus callosum. The neurosis begins, possibly, as a life-saving detour in the corpus callosum....like a fail-switch reacting to a powerful electrical spike....a "shocking" realisation of the truth..... a fat lightning bolt trying to connect from bottom to top. The quick brain stem instantly bends the lightning bolt near the bottom. It's only a slight, crude bend, not far from proper alignment, but it's enough to cause huge deviations at the top of the intellect. As the therapist and patient go deeper and deeper, the lightning bolt gets straighter and straighter from top to bottom, like tightening a slack rope. And it gets fatter and fatter. This is only a symbolic explanation but it might be consistent with real anatomy, as strong signals take the path of least resistance. The lightning bolt is not the 'computer program'. The program was already written from top to bottom, and perfectly preserved (even if the top was not very developed at the time). The lightning bolt is the connection that allows or denies access to the program. The program cannot be re-programmed by a cognitive therapist because access to the program is located somewhere in the deep, in the area where access was originally denied.<br /><br />You're the expert. You'll have to show me what you do in therapy. By the way, I have good savings now but I am still looking at ways to stay in America for longer than three months. I will be in touch.Richard Atkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13587935146938446604noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-22234321974813712672013-03-31T11:34:02.814-07:002013-03-31T11:34:02.814-07:00Richard: Some true and some not so true, but are y...Richard: Some true and some not so true, but are you trying, which is good. artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-45879002742702220182013-03-30T15:21:00.302-07:002013-03-30T15:21:00.302-07:00Willpower exists at the top of the patient's b...Willpower exists at the top of the patient's brain. As we go deeper we can see that the patient has less control until finally, at the bottom, he has no control at all. You cannot will an orgasm by controlling the brain stem; you must control the higher level and allow the subsequent out-of-control reaction to occur.<br /> <br />At the bottom of the neocortex, truthful thoughts are generated instantly and automatically. The bottom is also responsible for instant, automatic lies. For example, the patient suddenly explodes with the idea: "OH MY GOD....I AM SURROUNDED BY DINOSAURS!!!!" And then the top of the neocortex requires some effort: "Ummm.....well....umm.....ummmm....I am surrounded by dinosaurs but I can't see them because they are hiding behind the trees.....I think....."<br /><br />Do we choose our beliefs? Not really. Our complex beliefs stem from a neurotic explosion from down below. In therapy, the patient must put in some effort at the beginning until he begins to free-fall. As he falls, he loses control. The forces from the deep can suck him in or spit him out. Ultimately, the BRAIN STEM will decide whether the patient is strong enough to experience the primal.<br /><br />The role of the therapist is to guide the patient towards the brain stem at a pace that the brain stem can handle.Richard Atkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13587935146938446604noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-73563442364765282792013-03-29T18:12:30.863-07:002013-03-29T18:12:30.863-07:00Hi emanuel,
It's so easy to say yes to people ...Hi emanuel,<br />It's so easy to say yes to people with power over us. It's never easy to live with the consequences. I'm glad you have discovered Primal and this blog, (me too). <br /><br />Paul G.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006514330039884557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-57763961762095042912013-03-29T01:08:56.429-07:002013-03-29T01:08:56.429-07:00If our genes can change their behaviour in respons...If our genes can change their behaviour in response to feelings, perhaps they can be affected by knowledge too....or more specifically....understanding and knowing. If you KNOW that your legs are too weak for the amount of walking required every day, even though you are not straining your legs.....your genes will ensure that your future children grow stronger legs. Is this possible? Why not? If epigenesis is that advanced, it would be hugely beneficial to the survival of our species. <br />Conscious awareness is so important for the primal healing process. Why???? Because our conscious awareness is more than an experience; it is a tool, and it is hooked up to our hormones, and our genes. Conscious awareness is the programmer. We are our own gods. If you KNOW (rather than fantasize) how to improve your body....why wouldn't your body take advantage of that precious knowledge? Why wouldn't your body learn from conscious awareness? After all, your conscious awareness is not just an unexplainable experience; every moment of it is recorded onto electrochemical hardware....it is revealed as a physical structure in your body....more useful than an arm or a leg.<br />If you want an impractically enormous penis, you can think about it all day, every day, but if you don't KNOW that you need a bigger penis, your genes will ignore your penis-related thoughts. Conscious awareness is useful because it cannot lie. <br />Richard Atkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13587935146938446604noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-79872935795800602332013-03-28T13:52:56.270-07:002013-03-28T13:52:56.270-07:00Art, is there a part of the brain that deals with ...Art, is there a part of the brain that deals with the present<br />reality throughout our life from conception to present adult age...?<br />The part that coordinates level(s) of consciousness for best and appropriate reaction to the outside and (maybe later in therapy) inside stimuli according to situation and age. The perfectness.<br />The part that in proper environment that "acknowledges" perfectness ("it means...") will decide to disengage the thinking brain to focus on inside and not only whatever inside but true inside - perfection.<br />The "boss" of our consciousness and of resonance.<br />Could it be called "top level"?<br />It is too early to call it brain from conception... i know.. <br />Maybe should call it Life.<br />It could be present everywhere... resonate with everything.<br /><br />I think that the third line is only a part, newest part of <br />the system of our consciousness - but not the top level.<br />Top level organises and develops itself in interaction with the environment from the begining. Life that is perfect as it is... and primal therapy<br />success is due to "it means ..." acceptance of patients just as they are... from conception... they can feel it... so they can be and heal Life.<br /><br />I see top level priority is to fully connect with present outside reality. For survival.<br />Sometimes that means to resonate with inside and go inside... but<br />the outside is what matters eventually. <br /><br /> <br /> <br />vukonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-74196372598338532022013-03-28T08:36:31.793-07:002013-03-28T08:36:31.793-07:00Dr. Janov
As you know, every syndrome "has a ...Dr. Janov<br />As you know, every syndrome "has a cause" and the "I won't believe it even if you prove it," syndrome, has a BIG one. We need to find out why PT is rejected.<br />Reading the February WP publication I find only “diagnosis” and “suggested“ treatments. None of the articles (example: EDITORIAL Mental disorders as “brain diseases” and Jaspers’ legacy http://www.wpanet.org/uploads/Publications/WPA_Journals/World_Psychiatry/Past_Issues/English/WP_Feb_2013.pdf ) is clearly pinpointing a cause. <br />Still existing statements such as: “all mental illnesses are cerebral illnesses” lead to nothing, expose no more than another black hole (the big unknown) where all psychiatric illnesses disappear without a “cure”. <br /><br />Would you please send me a link to " World Congress of Psychiatry: Activitas Nervosa Superior." when it becomes available. <br />Thanks, Sieglinde<br />S. W. Alexanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12087227301358286386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-46187508861945135762013-03-27T03:14:50.743-07:002013-03-27T03:14:50.743-07:00Frank: Exactly. artFrank: Exactly. artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-58800504829662687602013-03-26T07:29:04.959-07:002013-03-26T07:29:04.959-07:00Hi Paul,
in a sense my body screamed to be touched...Hi Paul,<br />in a sense my body screamed to be touched ... if only through the hands<br />of this idiotic!! MD who performed this sympathectomy (cutting through <br />nerves).<br /><br />It may may sound ludricous: but really looked forward to this (inspite <br />the pains involved therein) and since 12 Years the "aftermath" of this <br />MEDICAL NONSENSE Yours emanuelemanuelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01380331335118885426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-45700089035156222492013-03-26T04:25:34.324-07:002013-03-26T04:25:34.324-07:00Sieglinde again: So so right. artSieglinde again: So so right. artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-44743385967943577952013-03-26T01:30:45.168-07:002013-03-26T01:30:45.168-07:00Art,
"It means a place where the doctor does...Art,<br /><br />"It means a place where the doctor does not offer insight into the patient’s deep unconscious and where the patient already “knows” what is wrong once we unleash the unconscious. <br />It means the patient is the final arbiter".<br /><br />This means that the patient has become so "aware" of what the feeling means for their symptoms of anxiety here and now... which can be likened to stepping on the train and finally get off at the right station.<br /><br />FrankFrankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02242354226308728116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-54359342931122197722013-03-25T09:59:26.132-07:002013-03-25T09:59:26.132-07:00Sieglinde: I do believe that starting this week th...Sieglinde: I do believe that starting this week there will be parts of my article for the World Congress of Psychiatry: Activitas Nervosa Superior. Even a piece in an august scientific journal will change them. It is, "I won't believe it even if you prove it," syndrome. artArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-21122751177470629062013-03-25T06:57:09.900-07:002013-03-25T06:57:09.900-07:00Dr. Janov
To understand what you are proposing req...Dr. Janov<br />To understand what you are proposing requires “independent thinking/feeling” (like Thomas Paine) cutting the umbilical court to ancient lectures AND committing to truly human healing. <br />The few willing have only a little chance; the psychologically burdened are a blessing to pharmaceutical companies and pays them, without proof of success, a good living for the 50 minute therapist.<br />To change the 100 year old Freudian IMPRINT requires a big bang – scientific evidence must prove that therapies stimulating only left brain without erasing trauma-imprinted pain in the right lower brain, is no more than an expensive farce. <br />Sieglinde <br />S. W. Alexanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12087227301358286386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-74857562227444124462013-03-24T05:51:28.803-07:002013-03-24T05:51:28.803-07:00Hi,
-"It means a quiet, soundproof setting an...Hi,<br />-"It means a quiet, soundproof setting and sessions which are open ended where the patient stays as long as he needs"-.<br /><br />I can only conclude that conventional therapy has not considered this due to the need to 'control' the outcome and to limit the healing process. I know of no UK therapists or therapy rooms set up in this way and it is hard for me to understand why not. It is beyond belief really. . .<br /><br />Ok, it costs more; but only at first. . . The three week intensive is essential. . . How could any-one break through their conventions and their usual defences to get into lower brain structures? Well, it's obvious, I mean those 'lower brain structures' are simply disregarded or badly misunderstood. Lastly, it's so misleading that the conventional therapies act as if people's problems can be overcome as 'part of an existing lifestyle'. Hence the 50 minute hour. It is an issue of convenience. Like liposuction instead of exercise and a healthy diet.<br /><br />I am frightened of going to the Centre. But the one thing that re-assures me is that padded, sound proofed room. How simple an idea and how essential.<br /><br />Paul G.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006514330039884557noreply@blogger.com