tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post4391399652154391221..comments2024-02-11T18:16:53.445-08:00Comments on Janov's Reflections on the Human Condition: The Simple Truth is Revolutionary: More on the ImprintArthur Janovhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16709863014923629409noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-18161397030865012192011-02-27T04:46:40.725-08:002011-02-27T04:46:40.725-08:00To me, self-delusions are useful...as long as one ...To me, self-delusions are useful...as long as one doesn't get carried away with them and I feel that a lot of people do have self-delusions for at times, that may be what keeps one going. One cannot rely upon friends and family all the time to "keep them going". Actually, without know it, loved ones can bring a person "down" and a little self-delusion could help. <br />Dormguardbeachcoast7https://www.blogger.com/profile/17348238170525257587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-69428486513993849002011-02-08T00:43:07.451-08:002011-02-08T00:43:07.451-08:00Marco: Yes I know what you are talking about. I a...Marco: Yes I know what you are talking about. I also didn't think you could get Primal Revolution any more. AJArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-45230012977761261372011-02-01T09:58:14.917-08:002011-02-01T09:58:14.917-08:00Hello Athanasios
Thank you for sharing the you tub...Hello Athanasios<br />Thank you for sharing the you tube video. I am extremely grateful to have had access to it and have sent it on to my friends. I, too, became very emotional.<br />Thank you again.<br />KarenKarenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06343889227399655859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-10896507849388728352011-01-25T22:09:26.465-08:002011-01-25T22:09:26.465-08:00Hi Richard
Perhaps I might appear non-feeling, bu...Hi Richard<br /><br />Perhaps I might appear non-feeling, but I assure you there is lots of communication between feeling and thinking. I grant, it is not perfect. I know of many things that would like to be resolved. But I can’t just pack up, dump the old man, and run to Cali. Its not that easy. I have obligations and responsibilities.<br /><br />Really, the goal of PT is to integrate. Feelings are not better than the mind and the mind is not better than feelings. They both have important useful roles. They need to work together.<br /><br />The way I see feelings is that feelings are sort of our instinct. Aristotle calls it our nature, what we inherit as human beings. Now those who wish to dominate us say we have no nature and we can be cultivated in any way they want to cultivate us. But . . . they are wrong. We do have an immutable nature. And that nature can be violated.<br /><br />Consider this Richard. You said: “Put away your calculator and take a risk. Be brave.”<br /><br />Here is how I see that. “Stop thinking and do whatever I say. I know better than you.” It is what many cult leaders say to their would-be followers. I look at it this way. If PT does not show me the risks in our society right now, what real good is it? If it cannot help me see clearly, or I end up running from clear vision and truth or fearing them, what good is PT?<br /><br />Yet, I do sense some fear and reluctance on some issues and maybe even some excessive prejudice in some areas. Fear causes a restraint. It inhibits and stifles. Love casts fear away. I will not run from anything. I’ll take my stand where I am. Truth can be as terrifying as Primal fears can be. I believe that. I have seen that. If PT is as great as they say, it ought to be able to overcome all fear, not just selective fear.<br /><br />You have assumed much about me and you could be right or wrong. But PT says no one can know me but me. I’ll leave it at that. AS Einstein said, if I were wrong, it would only take one to point it out. For those who cannot readily obtain PT, then what? This is what never gets answered.<br /><br />There has to be a back up plan. I think the intellect is a good back up plan.apollohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02040184843184207525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-23124288868304731142011-01-23T11:14:05.916-08:002011-01-23T11:14:05.916-08:00Off topic if you care to print it anyways:
For th...Off topic if you care to print it anyways:<br /><br />For the last month I have been going through an especially bad time , feeling quite raw ,anxious, and vulnerable (my chest and stomach are almost perpetually like in a vise from fear and anxiety). I will spare you all the details.But I've noticed that when I have been reading Dr Janov's books during this period , I seem to understand even more clearly what he is talking about, although practically speaking , because I am not in therapy, I am not feeling better.Do you Dr Janov, and others, know what I am talking about?Do we need to be really shaken up to get some difficult truths sometimes? I know this might all sound vague, but I can't be more precise.<br /><br />Anyways, I just want to say that , like in all of Dr Janov's books, there are some very profound passages in The Primal Revolution, I can tell you all that (that's the book I have been reading the most). <br /><br />Marcomacor22https://www.blogger.com/profile/00652948318839690382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-46673147081468045682011-01-21T14:06:36.090-08:002011-01-21T14:06:36.090-08:00Apollo, to answer your excellent question:
what is...Apollo, to answer your excellent question:<br />what is the value in feelings?<br /><br />Feelings guide us to happiness. They allow us to naturally absorb far more information from our surroundings. They allow us to notice the expression on our girlfriend's face while also noticing the smell of her hair and the sound of the ocean and the feel of the sand, ALL AT THE SAME TIME. A rich, detailed, full experience.<br />I'm not fantasising. I have been there a couple of times in my adult life. It was like a big wad of cotton wool was removed from my head and I woke up to my surroundings. My consciousness opened up for a few seconds, I felt the intense presence of everything around me, and then I panicked, and then I plunged back into my comparatively unfeeling self....back to a state of consciousness that is probably similar to most people's. But I have not forgotten the fact that there was an ENORMOUS difference in holistic awareness. I am VERY LUCKY to know what I am missing out on. Well-defended people have no reason to question their own level of holistic awareness. They don't know why Art is so passionate about his work!! During the NIMH peer reviewed studies, Dr Janov was "trying to show the moon to people who have never known planets." <br /><br />Life is supposed to be huge, free-spirited, and instinctively understood. The world is a giant place for you to explore and enjoy, any way you like, without any undue fear or depression. You can't imagine that kind of freedom. You have to feel it. Primal patients feel more alive.<br /><br />Put away your calculator and take a risk. Be brave.Richard Atkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13587935146938446604noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-20257647789087810352011-01-21T01:33:11.542-08:002011-01-21T01:33:11.542-08:00Trevor: A good case in point for going too fast an...Trevor: A good case in point for going too fast and too far is Rebirthing.....very dangerous. art janovArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-57358402865042345322011-01-20T19:32:22.158-08:002011-01-20T19:32:22.158-08:00Just to clarify, Arthur. I personally do not think...Just to clarify, Arthur. I personally do not think psychiatry is as ignorant of PT as they might let on. It is simply an area they “perceived” (interpret as you like) to be taboo. It might make someone unhappy and you don’t want to seem them when they are unhappy ;-)<br /><br />Many are truly oblivious to PT but not all. Some prefer just to avoid it, knowing at the same time that it really does make sense and reveal answers. Just my suspicion running away with me Damn those primal feelings, huh? It reminds me of Rowan and Martin’s Laugh-In in the 60s, and early 70s. They had many little slogans and catch phrases. One was, the ”devil made me do it.” Its nice to have escape routes, huh?<br /><br />But the value of emotions? They might cause us to over-react at times. But they can also be handy in alerting us to dangers we might otherwise not give that much credit to. I think of the account of a woman in one of Arthur’s books who was conversing with the seedy man who invited her up to his apartment to see poetry or paintings, I forget which. She was reluctant but thought it was just her mother in her head. But it turned out “mother” was right. She was raped.<br /><br />It was sad but you can be sure she will avoid those situations a lot more now. Many do not take seemingly “small” warning signs seriously. On the other hand, they may take them too seriously. The challenge in life is to try to put it in perspective despite PP trying to disrupt our thoughts, though unintentionally. The instincts simply do not have regard for our thoughts. They have their won sense of urgency which always tries to disrupt as it nothing was more important.<br /><br />Indeed, that may even be the case in many respects but since we have to get along day by day, there is some need for functionality until circumstances become more secure or till we can no longer bear the constant intrusion.<br /><br />Athanasios, you have a right to feel sad. It is sad. But sadly, only people like you will have that resonance with that. Most people are too dead in feeling to have any concern for children or anyone in a vulnerable state. Many pretend care for the helpless and innocent but few actually let it change their lives and actions. For many, its just lip service.<br /><br />It will be up to the brave few among former kids to face the problems that have brought them to where they are and try to heal through PT or if their thinking brains are stronger enough, to at least modify their former course and give more thought to what they say and do.apollohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02040184843184207525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-59551298073244477802011-01-20T19:26:24.052-08:002011-01-20T19:26:24.052-08:00It is fascinating how emotions and feelings work. ...It is fascinating how emotions and feelings work. I can only wonder about the many purposes of such powerful feelings, as opposed to thinking, which is often void of emotions. I once was in a situation where I was in a religious group where mind control was strongly practiced, which is sort of redundant for most of the world continually also practices such things.<br /><br />I suspected they were not happy with me being somewhat independently inclined in thought and actions. I was quite like them and that did not set well. Now, I sensed that there was some resentment toward me and sort of knew how they might respond to my ideas, if they ever got out. But knowing this as a fact was nothing compared to the actual experience of it and its emotional contents.<br /><br />When the big show down finally came, even though I knew it was coming and only a matter of time, still the ferocity of it did take me by surprise. I was expecting them to be upset but not to the degree it finally became. I sensed why but it was no easier to bear. I went home numb and essentially stayed that way some. I was changed after that. The experience is far more than when the mind and thoughts can relay. You have to feel it to really believe it. There as a break or split in me at that point. I could feel it. Actually, it was the opposite of feeling. It was feeling nothing at all but anxiety and depression were felt for many years to come. I had been “touched” stained, damaged. It happens to everyone many times, no doubt about it.<br /><br />Now I have not experienced a primal episode, though I did come close twice, I suspect. But all I can try to convey to those who might be unfamiliar with PP and PT is that feelings have a far greater impact than thoughts and ideas. I, for one, value ideas very much. But I have never underestimated feelings or their vast importance.<br /><br />So let me state plainly and unequivocally, that no matter what you know, and knowing can be important, it will never compare with actual experience and actually experience is stored and can be relived or revived, though in truth, we avoided it and bypassed it the first time, so that it is actually the first time when it comes up in a patient after being hidden away so long or at least remained unknown but not entirely unfelt.<br /><br />I would ask all to ponder, what is the great value feelings. I have ideas to offer but it would be good to hear from others, too.apollohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02040184843184207525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-47047520427990929032011-01-20T08:32:15.824-08:002011-01-20T08:32:15.824-08:00Art:
Not to oversimplify, but your therapy seems ...Art:<br /><br />Not to oversimplify, but your therapy seems like learning to lift weights or dance or master kung fu. That is, one needs to do things gradually, building on prior skills. That is, it's not wise to go deeper into pain than you're comfortable with or ready to handle.<br /><br />Even so, some “experts” cause people to try things too soon and go too fast, resulting in torn ligaments, stubbed toes, broken bones, or damaged psyches. <br /><br />Like most adepts, those seeking therapy need to find caring and competent instructors. Unfortunately, there are too many sink-or-swim hard-asses who act like crazed drill-instructors. They are the beaten kids who grew into adults who beat their own kids “for their own good” claiming “Spanking didn’t hurt me!” (Really? They think beating defenseless children is okay?). Or hazed frat pledges who pass on the pain (in the name of brotherly bonding, of course) by hazing subsequent vulnerable newbies.<br /><br />Raised a Catholic, taught that suffering and “mortification of the flesh” were good things, I’m defended against many pains. In the past I probably sought them out, too, to show I could “take it.” What unglues me is kindness. I don’t trust it (my bipolar mother being untrustworthy), yet crave it. <br /><br />The deepest I ever went in therapy was when the therapist asked what was wrong in a gentle voice. I wasn't prepared for it. I got scared, started panicking. I felt I was "wrong" and everyone knew it. I felt trapped, like there was no way out. So I slid off my chair thinking I was going insane. I started sobbing… and new that instant I was just scared. I finally stopped crying, sat back up, and felt and saw the world differently. <br /><br />Tragically, therapists soon changed and, self-crucifying Catholic that I was, I chose the biggest, baddest one to be MY “helper.” It about killed me.<br /><br />I’m also amazed when people say we should be self-sufficient. Most saying so fail to see or admit the help they got. I mean, who raises a barn alone? Can a farmer be a doctor and CEO and pilot and so on all at the same time? People have to cooperate to survive. <br /><br />Alas, too many are numb to the pain of not getting mentoring/help themselves. So they hector others to “Suck it up!” or “Be a man!” and so on.<br /><br />Someone once said most men in prison are little boys hiding their fears and vulnerabilities under mountains of muscles and tons of posturing.Trevorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14374461848986737683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-62265328170897838752011-01-19T16:48:31.249-08:002011-01-19T16:48:31.249-08:00yes, and when you say "feel where the patient...yes, and when you say "feel where the patient needs to go" i think you mean see and hear all the subtle information coming from the patient, and all that information is experienced and understood quite easily by the therapist. it is seen as a whole....it's obvious (usually)....a holistic interpretation. and that holistic experience continues whether you are listening to music, sailing a boat or whatever. it's not some kind of magic....it's just a natural intelligence...but it seems so mysterious to people who can't fully feel.<br /><br />people who can fully feel are clever. they are creative and skilfully achieve their goals....and their goals are meaningful and very rewarding. they live a far better life because they are normal.Richard Atkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13587935146938446604noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-3608061222730903412011-01-19T12:28:20.515-08:002011-01-19T12:28:20.515-08:00Sig: You know people, especially therapists, and e...Sig: You know people, especially therapists, and even my students cannot go any deeper than they can go or have gone. Until people feel or are in great emotional pain from their childhoods they cannot feel where the patient needs to go. art janovArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-49562011549549987192011-01-19T10:59:44.574-08:002011-01-19T10:59:44.574-08:00Dear Arthur.
irrelevant to the article. sorry.
i...Dear Arthur.<br /><br />irrelevant to the article. sorry.<br /><br />i want to share this video with you. i don't know why. maybe because deeper inside my i still hope that by sharing it with as many as possible something could change in this fucked up world? though my opinion is, it's too late for humanity. i watched it 3 times and i cried a lot!!! i sent it to pr center and so many friends. i also posted it on facebook. and what a response so far! nobody at all has to say something. no comments at all. i feel so sad.<br /><br />you feel you must post this here?. as you wish<br />i'm sure you will enjoy it<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MW46cu0UM8&feature=relatedThanasishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06727357517414268206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-67006235687758682372011-01-19T04:20:14.418-08:002011-01-19T04:20:14.418-08:00Friends, I am enjoying these comments a lot, espec...Friends, I am enjoying these comments a lot, especially I am very happy to have you Art taking active part everyday with us in the discussions, commentaries etc. It shows that you really care. Thank you again. I' d like to plug on again to the topic "lack of recognition on the part of the medical world to PT". Towards PT is the attitude beeing applied: "ignore it, maybe it'll will go away". Instead of going to the roots of the problem and solve it, they prefer to go beat around the bush "ad infnitum". Fear or cunningness? I think bothSig. Rossihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08753636843957147628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-12807635157637811492011-01-19T03:24:44.556-08:002011-01-19T03:24:44.556-08:00Hi,
Thankyou very much Dr Janov. Also Jan and all ...Hi,<br />Thankyou very much Dr Janov. Also Jan and all others. It sounds to me as though I am in for the long haul, possibly that's a good thing as I can't come to Santa Monica for a while anyway. <br /><br />What is a prepsychotic?<br /><br />Lastly I am also completely convinced of the unconvincability of most other people about Primal Therapy and Theory. In many respects I was the same because I read the Primal Scream 25yrs ago, then assuming Primal Theory was part of psychotherapy I spent 25yrs barking down the wrong hole. <br />Only by a small reference to your work Dr Janov, in one of Alice Millers' books am I lucky enough to now be reminded of the truth. <br />I discovered Alice Millers' books almost accidentally as well.<br />People are dismissive about anything painful or taboo, that's how it seems to me. Pain is the taboo.<br />Many thanks<br /><br />PG.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006514330039884557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-83841105179959560302011-01-18T23:36:09.960-08:002011-01-18T23:36:09.960-08:00And my response to it:
"Yes, I have a hundre...And my response to it:<br /><i>"Yes, I have a hundred page chapter in my book coming out about anxiety. It sounds like you can use our therapy. If my projected research pans out, if we ever get $100,000. to do the telomeres research I am quite sure that we prolong life by a lot. So you and me both want to live a long time. Because we lower body temperature by one degree over one year of our therapy that alone should lengthen life another several years. art janov"</i>Arthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-22950291071289454222011-01-18T23:35:31.372-08:002011-01-18T23:35:31.372-08:00Another email comment:
"Dear Dr. Janov,
Your...Another email comment:<br /><i>"Dear Dr. Janov,<br /><br />Your writings help me in a way that only a miracle can do, really! I have no words of gratitude that would do justice to you. Thank you SO much ! <br />I KNOW you are extremely busy, but is it at all possible to make time for questions I have? I so want to understand all the terminology you use and there are some questions, very very important to me Dr. Janov. I bought ALL your DVD's. These last postings of you are like written specifically for me.<br /><br />I go through the most difficult time in my entire life. I turn 60 in April, but want to become 150! Such a beautiful life, so much I still want to achieve, but I'm STUCK in my process.<br /><br />I am at a stage where I experience anxiety attacks, anger attacks and whole bunch more at any time of day and night. Is what you say here what it says.....?<br /><br />" That anxiety is no more than the imprint forcing its way out".<br /><br />that the body rids itself of these imprints/traumas/feelings automatically without intervention? Without me having to do anything, besides waiting. (I'm SO done with all these therapies I explored....primal therapy is the only one with substance, but I cannot afford to come to LA) <br /><br />Dr. Janov this is SO important for me to know. It gives me hope. There has been NO one whom I could turn to, no one understanding the dynamics I experience....YOU are the first!<br /><br />Please find a minute somewhere to answer me.<br /><br />Thank you!!"<br /></i>Arthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-67631607589117985612011-01-18T23:31:16.429-08:002011-01-18T23:31:16.429-08:00And my response to it:
I have written a book to do...And my response to it:<br />I have written a book to do exactly what you suggest. Life Before Birth. comes out June 1. let me know what you think. dr. janovArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-68713277815110137632011-01-18T23:30:43.345-08:002011-01-18T23:30:43.345-08:00Another email comment:
"Arthur, have you writ...Another email comment:<br /><i>"Arthur, have you written much on the medicalisation of childbirth? Things such as: increase in numbers of 'booking' a caesarian, instead of letting baby come naturally, stupid lying down position to give birth, standard practice in some places to put babies in incubators if they need it or not, poking, probing, anointing with anti-biotics, not to mention all the rush fuss hysteria disorganisation & stress. There's a fair few women out there think that men should have nothing to do with it. I tend to think it's general improved hygeine that's lowered birth mortality in western society, rather than medics hovering over everyone. Have you met many mums & offspring that can cite happy birth experiences? I think you need also to examine the immense pressures young women face. Equality, respect, autonomy, support, choice, (& in US, decent healthcare), nothing but a distant dream for many women, especially those from low income backgrounds. You're a good bloke, you can foster change."</i>Arthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-44507140582386716532011-01-18T23:28:36.894-08:002011-01-18T23:28:36.894-08:00An email comment:
"You could subtitle this on...An email comment:<br /><i>"You could subtitle this one "in a nutshell."<br />Good post! Thanks."</i>Arthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-57567895289586263922011-01-18T23:27:40.065-08:002011-01-18T23:27:40.065-08:00Jack: Good. Art.Jack: Good. Art.Arthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-71264791126540437412011-01-18T12:02:04.484-08:002011-01-18T12:02:04.484-08:00In my book I took the liberty to state briefly Pri...In my book I took the liberty to state briefly Primal theory in seven short (roughly one half page) chapters. At the end of the last chapter of Part 1 I concluded with the summary below.<br /><br />In Summary<br />Primal theory states that we as babies have needs which, if not fully met, cause us to suffer overwhelming pain which we then have to repress by splitting the memory of it from our consciousness. Unfortunately, this split from consciousness means we have no access through memory to this event, but are forever left floundering and only subliminally aware that something is amiss. Later in life, we develop defense mechanisms to prevent current feelings from recalling these deeper primal feelings which in turn permit the defenses to become embedded and reinforced as we get older. <br /><br />Primal Theory suggests that nothing short of a reliving of the original feeling event will connect it back into our consciousness where the defense mechanisms will then cease to be effective or necessary. JackJack Waddingtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06427501529242639591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-70372735366757224152011-01-18T10:33:54.720-08:002011-01-18T10:33:54.720-08:00Jan: What do you mean? AJ.Jan: What do you mean? AJ.Arthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-11613321527222060642011-01-18T10:07:12.980-08:002011-01-18T10:07:12.980-08:00Jack: sure use the lines you want. It is a good s...Jack: sure use the lines you want. It is a good suggestion and I think in the new book out June 1 it will be covered, I hope. But it is already well covered in Primal Healing. art janovArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3420173096635836108.post-87982941111281915542011-01-18T10:06:15.046-08:002011-01-18T10:06:15.046-08:00PG: The theory is as follows: Normally the patient...PG: The theory is as follows: Normally the patient must be well anchored in the third line where the imprint is played out. Not always but most times. Then the vehicle of feeling will drive you lower when the pain is relivable. To drive a patient deeper before she is ready is a big mistake and that is what is dangerous about rebirthing. There are times when there is immediate access to lower levels. Prepsychotics have this and it is dangerous. But sometimes it can be done. And yes it is possible. Yes we all need a trained therapist. If the trauma has deeper roots then most of that trauma needs to be addressed and relived before going deeper. The pain level down deeper is such that you need to clear off much of the higher levels first. good question. art janovArthur Janovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009571728800026496noreply@blogger.com